Kitchen appliances in 220.20

[CaseyM]

In a commercial load calculation where motors, welders, signage, water heaters and the like are listed without context and microwaves, refridgerators and dishwashers are thrown in for spice can I include the water heater in the 220.20 demand factor if it isn't specifically identified in the calculation as kitchen equipment or does the 220.20 calc only work if the water heater is specifically installed for use as a kitchen appliance? And for that matter, are microwaves, fridges, freezers, mixers and other cord and plug connected equipment considered kitchen equipment for the purpose of 220.20?

Casey

 

[physis]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

I'm entering a retraction of my original comment.

[ August 15, 2005, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[jwelectric]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

Originally posted by CaseyM:
does the 220.20 calc only work if the water heater is specifically installed for use as a kitchen appliance?

Casey

2002 cycle
220.20 Kitchen Equipment ? Other Than Dwelling Unit(s).
It shall be permissible to compute the load for commercial electric cooking equipment, dishwasher booster heaters, water heaters, and other kitchen equipment in accordance with Table 220.20. These demand factors shall be applied to all equipment that has either thermostatic control or intermittent use as kitchen equipment. They shall not apply to space-heating, ventilating, or air-conditioning equipment.

Seems pretty onpen and close to me. If it is not used in or for the kitchen it can't be applied here.


[ August 15, 2005, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]

 

[CaseyM]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

Even if the water heater as a general appliance for the building is essential for supplying hot water to dishwashers, cook sinks, and the like but is not exclusively for the kitchen?

 

[physis]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

The reason I removed my original comment is that the more I looked at it the less sense it made.

What's the difference if the water heater serves the kitchen in the first place?

 

[charlie b]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

Originally posted by physis: The reason I removed my original comment is that the more I looked at it the less sense it made. What's the difference if the water heater serves the kitchen in the first place?

It makes even less sense to me, given that I didn't manage to read the original comment before your retraction.

But the demand factor for kitchen loads applies to kitchen loads. That tells me that the load must be physically located within the kitchen walls. Put the water heater under the dining room table , and you don't get to count it as a kitchen load. If there is a water heater that supplies the kitchen sink, and only the kitchen sink, and if it is located in the garage, then it doesn't count either.

 

[physis]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

It makes no sense to me for a service calculaion.

If I put a water heater that serves the entire building, in the kitchen, it uses a different amount of current, or more or less often, or at different times?

 

[charlie b]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

If you can convince the AHJ that that water heater in the kitchen has "an intermittent use as kitchen equipment," then you can count it when looking up the demand factor in Table 220.20 (2002 version). But if I were tasked with preparing and sealing the plans, I don't think I would count it.

 

[physis]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

I agree with you're interpetaion, I just don't understand the logic and because of that I'm not sure if I understand calculation requirement.

 

[steve66]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

But 220.20 specifically says "water heaters". If this is a restaurant, 99% of the hot water is going to be used in the kitchen. And it says it can be applied to "all equipment that has either thermostatic control or intermittent use as kitchen equipment." I think I would apply the demand factor to a hot water heater in a restaurant.

Steve

 

[charlie b]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

I would too, if the water heater were in the kitchen. If it were in a closet right next to the kitchen, I might buy that. The further it is from the kitchen, the less likely I am to count it in the demand factor calculation.

 

[physis]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

I don't do much commercial but I did do a resteraunt a year or so ago and it occurs to me that there were three different rooms in that building that might be legitimately considered a kitchen. Whatever a kitchen is.

 

[CaseyM]

Re: Kitchen appliances in 220.20

I think this is an excellent example of why the WA State Administration Exam is tearing my heart out and stomping on the pieces. All of us are intelligent and experienced electricians debating something none of us can prove with certainty. I'm not convinced about the water heater not counting if it's in another room though. If a restaurant hires a plumber to install a new water heater specifically for a dishwasher and for no other purpose, but has to install the heater in the attic beacause ther is no other place available then the water heater is still a kitchen appliance because it is specifically for utilization in the kitchen (in my humble opinion). So if a test question lists a water heater as a load without disscussing it's purpose then how could anybody know with any certainty whether 220.20 (2002) can apply.
In reality this small issue probably makes no difference on a feeder calculation anyway but on my exam it could mean the difference of an answer.
I'll take this opportunity now to shamelessy point you all in the dirrection of another posting of mine in the exam prep section called something like Sample Wa State Admin Test with Answers where you too can bash you brains out on load calculations. I'm taking the calculation section again for the fourth time this Saturday and clawing for any help I can get.