Kitchen counter outlets

[infinity]

Works well with a removable false bottom and a 2" space. We used 4 11/16 X 1.5" boxes with 3/4" raised covers for a similar installation once. Leaves plenty of room for multiple cables or GFCI devices.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I disagree. I'm not sure what a person could put in upper kitchen cabinets that would damage the wire, but you could also stub right out of the wall and into the box, with little or no exposed cable.

For the record, I think this is a ridiculous way to install counter receptacles unless you have specially built cabinets with the aforementioned false bottom. Customers don't find exposed electrical wiring and boxes as attractive as we do.

I agree this is a ridiculous arrangement. I still think that an inspector can make you protect an exposed piece of wire that is in an upper cabinet.

I had people in this forum saying my carflex around the nm in a base cabinet is not legit. Give me a break.

I would protect the wire regardless unless you can make the install as you said with little or no wire. I cannot imagine a job that I am on that would allow that installation and if they did it would definitely be boxed around.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

How do you mount an outlet under an upper kitchen cabinet bottom?I saw one that was cut in to the bottom of the cabinet with the plate cover facing down.I saw this on a tv home show.This was done because they used a raised ceramic tile on the back splash.This was not Wiremold.

Why not place the recepacles in the backsplash using and adjustable box? Let the tile guy cut his tile......

 

[haskindm]

The difficulty of installing receptacles in a kitchen counter is getting to be ridiculous. The requirement that "no point along the counter-top shall be more than two feet from a receptacle" (loosely quoted) has been in the code for many years. Kitchen designers should be aware of it and it should be part of their design. To design a kitchen without space for receptacles is unforgivable unless you are designing a kitchen for an Amish family. The fact that a designer "forgot" about the electrical requirements should not become the electricians nightmare. The designer should be required to come up with a workable design. I agree that it seems foolish to require TR receptacles above a counter-top, but that is the way it is written for now...

 

[LarryFine]

I have done a couple of kitchen remodels where the use of Wiremold boxes against the cabinet bottoms was planned from the get-go. One in particular stands out, and it's how the demolished kitchen had been done.

For the receptacles, I stubbed out the 12/2's as I would for under-cabinet lighting, had the cabinet guy drill holes in the cabinet back panel, and mounted shallow 1-gang W/M boxes against the panel back, facing down.

The receptacles were protected by GFCI receptacles installed in wall outlets elsewhere in the kitchen, so I wouldn't need deep W/M boxes under the cabinets, which would show from under the 1" cabinet skirt.

The under-cabinet pucks (I prefer fluorescents, but . . . ), each with attached 18/2 lamp cord, were wired into separate, blanked shallow W/M boxes. I used hot-melt glue to affix the 18/2 to the cabinet bottoms.

The switches were installed in their own 2- and 3-gang W/M boxes. To protect all of the NM and 18/2 from the edges of the W/M box front KO's, I slit 1"-long pieces of 1/8" ID rubber tube to make grommets.

Not suprisingly, the inspector didn't like the installation methods, but then he also wanted GFCI protection of a built-in desk at the far side of the kitchen, claiming it looked like the countertops to him.

I was well prepared with my read of the NEC about everything I did, and I asked him to bring his boss to the jobsite. I showed him my notes, and he agreed that everything I did considering what I had to work with.


As for getting stuck between the customer, the GC, and the designer, the best defense is a good offense. I tell them the requirements, what the options are, and ask them to let me know when they come to an agreement.

 

[electricalperson]

They do make angle plugmold for that purpose

Here is the link

its not tamper resistant yet

 

[zdog]

I have done several the same way larry described.On one the second service call from the home owner that the recpts were bad i convinced her that her cell phone charger was to heavy and was falling out. not a bad recpt.

 

[LarryFine]

I have done several the same way larry described.On one the second service call from the home owner that the recpts were bad i convinced her that her cell phone charger was to heavy and was falling out. not a bad recpt.

Plop!

You could always sell and install a hospital-grade receptacle for that location.

 

[stickboy1375]

Does the TR requirement apply to garage receptacles? Including the ones in the ceiling for the door openers? If so, that's more than just odd.

It's all or nothing baby... would you really want to carry two types of receptacles on your truck if you only do residential?

 

[Mike03a3]

It's all or nothing baby... would you really want to carry two types of receptacles on your truck if you only do residential?

I'm an engineer - I don't have a truck. :grin: (Actually, I do, but I don't haul receptacles around in it.)

I understand your point from the service perspective, but I'm pretty sure the people designing tract homes would not spec a TR receptacle for any location that didn't require one - especially since the unit cost is about 2x a non TR recept.

 

[stickboy1375]

I'm an engineer - I don't have a truck. :grin: (Actually, I do, but I don't haul receptacles around in it.)

I understand your point from the service perspective, but I'm pretty sure the people designing tract homes would not spec a TR receptacle for any location that didn't require one - especially since the unit cost is about 2x a non TR recept.

In dwelling units, all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles shall be listed as tamper resistant.

Author's comment: This rule applies to receptacles installed behind appliances, above countertops, and other locations out of the reach of children.

This new section requires the use of listed tamper-resistant receptacles for all 15A and 20A, 125V receptacles installed in dwelling units.

 

[peter d]

Author's comment: This rule applies to receptacles installed behind appliances, above countertops, and other locations out of the reach of children.

This NEC rule is obviously designed to prevent adults from sticking things in outlets, or else they wouldn't have gone with a blanket provision like that.

 

[stickboy1375]

This NEC rule is obviously designed to prevent adults from sticking things in outlets, or else they wouldn't have gone with a blanket provision like that.

Once in awhile I get this crazy urge to just jamb some piece of metal in a receptacle, but now I'm protected.... thank you CMP!!!

 

[haskindm]

The code says that Tamper Proof Receptacles are required in those areas covered by 210.52. 210.52 states that the receptacles required in this section shall be in addition to any "receptacle that is part of a luminaire, or appliance, located within cabinets or cupboards, or located more than 5-1/2 feet above the floor". My interpretation of this would be that TR receptacles would NOT be required for a receptacle inside a cabinet (such as for a garbage disposal), or in an appliance garage, since these receptacles are "in addition to" those required by 210.52. They would also not be required for a garage door opener, since that is usually more than 5-1/2 feet above the floor. At least that is what it seems to say. The electrician will need to decide if it is worth it to stock and install two different receptacles.
Any thoughts? I am here to learn...