Kitchen GFCI and 210.8(A)(7)

[dirkhats]

Because the 2014 Code at 210.8(A)(7) no longer states "located in in areas other than kitchens" do you agree every 125 Volt 15 or 20 amp receptacle located within 6 feet of the Kitchen sink is required to have GFCI protection? Such as behind refrigerator, inside of a cabinet such as Microwave and disposal, or even behind the wall such at the TV in the living-room, regardless if they serve the counter top or not? (Does the measurement go through walls and cabinets, or around them?)

 

[charlie b]

I agree that if the outlet that serves the fridge is within 6 feet of the sink, it requires GFCI protection. But it would be a poor kitchen design that had the fridge and the sink immediately adjacent to each other. A good kitchen layout would have counter space on both sides of the sink, so that the outlet that serves the fridge would likely be more than 6 feet away.

I don't think the rule applies to outlets within cabinets or around corners. As to the meaning of "within 6 feet," my interpretation is that if you hold one end of a 6' long string at the edge of the sink, any outlet that can be reached by the other end needs GFCI protection. So in the case of the fridge, with a 2 foot counter space next to the sink, and with the outlet that serves the fridge located close to floor level, the 6' long string would not reach the outlet. I reiterate that if in order to get to the outlet with the string you first have to open a cabinet door, the rule does not apply.

I know that this isn't in the code, but by my way of thinking the reason for the 6' rule is that portable appliances (e.g., blenders and toasters) have power cords of that length or shorter. So the rule is all about the risk of dropping the appliance into a sink full of water with the appliance still being plugged into the outlet. We don't typically open the cabinet door above the stove (where the microwave is located) or below the sink (where the disposal is located), and use the outlet to plug in a portable appliance.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Wow did ot know that the NEC put that section in and then took it back out again?
Flip Flop ,,

 

[MasterTheNEC]

I agree that if the outlet that serves the fridge is within 6 feet of the sink, it requires GFCI protection. But it would be a poor kitchen design that had the fridge and the sink immediately adjacent to each other. A good kitchen layout would have counter space on both sides of the sink, so that the outlet that serves the fridge would likely be more than 6 feet away.

I don't think the rule applies to outlets within cabinets or around corners. As to the meaning of "within 6 feet," my interpretation is that if you hold one end of a 6' long string at the edge of the sink, any outlet that can be reached by the other end needs GFCI protection. So in the case of the fridge, with a 2 foot counter space next to the sink, and with the outlet that serves the fridge located close to floor level, the 6' long string would not reach the outlet. I reiterate that if in order to get to the outlet with the string you first have to open a cabinet door, the rule does not apply.

I know that this isn't in the code, but by my way of thinking the reason for the 6' rule is that portable appliances (e.g., blenders and toasters) have power cords of that length or shorter. So the rule is all about the risk of dropping the appliance into a sink full of water with the appliance still being plugged into the outlet. We don't typically open the cabinet door above the stove (where the microwave is located) or below the sink (where the disposal is located), and use the outlet to plug in a portable appliance.

Charlie I am incline to support your statement with a minor exception. It was made very clear at the IAEI Southern Section (and other sections I attended) and at various meetings where this was debated, that the receptacle under the sink (garbage disposal or otherwise) if within 6' of the outside edge of the sink would be required to be GFCI protected. Now, the open/closed cabinet statement is not in the NEC (and I think you did state that qualifier ahead of time) but I can tell you that the vast majority disagree with the closed "cabinet" theory.

As for the poor design, I have seen a few of those poor designs in my day. The original intent of this was to get at those receptacles that are on the backside of counter or wall that serves an adjacent area where the receptacle would be within 6' of the outside edge of the sink. The other receptacles are simply collateral damage. If they do not intend to pick up the receptacles in a cabinet then I believe a proposal of such would be in order...That's my 2 cents on it.

The only way they would get clearly beyond this is to possibly use the same verbiage of 210.52(3) and add an exception or the statement excluding receptacles "located within cabinets or cupboards" to 210.8(A)...Hurry Up....you have until Nov 7, 2014 go get it submitted:angel: