Kitchen Hospital receptacles

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brother

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I noticed in the code that most of the "commercial and institutional' kitchens has to have gfci protection for the receptacles.
2005 NEC 210.8 (B)(2) and they even try to define "kitchens". Its even more restrictive in 2008 it seems.

I believe that hospitals would fall under the "commercial' of course, but is there not some exception for special equipment they use in this very large kitchen where they dont need gfci protection?? Cant seem to find one.
 
brother said:
but is there not some exception for special equipment they use in this very large kitchen where they dont need gfci protection??
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It's not an exception, just not covered. For example 120V hard wired and 208V equipment would not require GFI protection.

(2) Kitchens
Section 210.8(B)(2) requires all 15- and 20-ampere, 125-volt receptacles in nondwelling-type kitchens to be GFCI protected. This requirement applies to all 15- and 20-ampere, 125-volt kitchen receptacles, whether or not the receptacle serves countertop areas.
Accident data related to electrical incidents in nondwelling kitchens reveal the presence of many hazards, including poorly maintained electrical apparatus, damaged electrical cords, wet floors, and employees without proper electrical safety training. Mandating some limited form of GFCI protection for high-hazard areas such as nondwelling kitchens should help prevent electrical accidents. This requirement provides specific information on what is considered to be a commercial or institutional kitchen. A location with a sink and a portable cooking appliance (e.g., cord-and-plug-connected microwave oven) is not considered a commercial or institutional kitchen for the purposes of applying this requirement. Kitchens in restaurants, hotels, schools, churches, dining halls, and similar facilities are examples of the types of kitchens covered by this requirement.
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From 08 HB.
 
brother said:
I believe that hospitals would fall under the "commercial' of course,
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No doubt. :smile:

but is there not some exception for special equipment they use in this very large kitchen where they dont need gfci protection??
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No, no exceptions at all for this requirement.

Of course as Chris pointed out it only applies to receptacles, not outlets.

And only 125 volt 15 or 20 amp receptacles.
 
iwire said:
No doubt. :smile:



No, no exceptions at all for this requirement.

Of course as Chris pointed out it only applies to receptacles, not outlets.

And only 125 volt 15 or 20 amp receptacles.
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It just seems that with a big heavy , weighing a half a ton refridgerator in a commercial kitchen that cannot be easily moved with a dedicated 'single' (not duplex') receptacle would not need gfci protection because its not readily assecible.

the receptcle trips, and the fridge is out of power and the food spoils. Then what???
Oh well, all in the name of safety.
 
brother said:
It just seems that with a big heavy , weighing a half a ton refridgerator in a commercial kitchen that cannot be easily moved with a dedicated 'single' (not duplex') receptacle would not need gfci protection because its not readily assecible.
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No one says you have to place the GFCI device behind the heavy equipment.

You could go with a faceless GFCI in a good spot or a GFCI breaker. :smile:

Oh well, all in the name of safety.
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Exactly. :cool:

The NFPA was presented with a number of electrical deaths and injuries to kitchen workers due to damaged flexible cords.

As far as the food spoiling, commercial kitchens must have visible thermometers on them and it is quite simple to set up alarms for over temp.
 
brother said:
the receptcle trips, and the fridge is out of power and the food spoils. Then what???
Oh well, all in the name of safety.
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We don't care about spoiled food. If it's that big of a concern the equipment can be connected to a dialer to notify someone if power was lost to the particular piece of equipment .

The reason for the requirement was due to electrocutions in commercial kitchens when people touched large pieces of equipment.


Roger
 
brother said:
It just seems that with a big heavy , weighing a half a ton refridgerator in a commercial kitchen that cannot be easily moved with a dedicated 'single' (not duplex') receptacle would not need gfci protection because its not readily assecible.

the receptcle trips, and the fridge is out of power and the food spoils. Then what???
Oh well, all in the name of safety.
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Or, a fault occurs within the half-ton refrigerator, but the receptacle does not trip because it's not a GFCI, and the cook spoils.

All in the name of food.
 
Ok i hear everyone, didnt know they had that many accidents/shockings in the kitchen. Those arguements i posted ive heard from other electricians that they dont like the gfcis in commercial kitchens, and i suggested what you all had stated. :)

looks in the 2008 they expanded the gfci requirement in garages in dwellings too.
 
iwire said:
No one says you have to place the GFCI device behind the heavy equipment.

You could go with a faceless GFCI in a good spot or a GFCI breaker. :smile:



Exactly. :cool:

The NFPA was presented with a number of electrical deaths and injuries to kitchen workers due to damaged flexible cords.

As far as the food spoiling, commercial kitchens must have visible thermometers on them and it is quite simple to set up alarms for over temp.
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I can vouch for that personally. Ive worked in many kitchens in NYC and I can surely tell you that many of these kitchens especially the older ones that have their prep areas in the basement are accidents waiting to happen. I worked in one kitchen that had an outlet just behind a drain (which was off the floor about 3 feet) and we would plug a small radio into it. And every time you went to unplug it you got a nice shock from it. It almost became like a stupid game. We would ask a new guy to use the outlet and watch him/her jump. what can I say we were a bunch of stupid cooks looking for a laugh. But many kitchens had all sort of electrical hazzards. Any code to prevent these is good IMHO. as a cook your hands are almost always damp or wet and you are constantly pluging and unpluging different equipment. And who's to say that down the road someone might find it necassary to move that big fridge to make room for something else? And If you dont put a gfci recept in youll have a hazzard like the one i described above.
 
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tonyou812 said:
I can vouch for that personally. Ive worked in many kitchens in NYC and I can surely tell you that many of these kitchens especially the older ones that have their prep areas in the basement are accidents waiting to happen. I worked in one kitchen that had an outlet just behind a drain (which was off the floor about 3 feet) and we would plug a small radio into it. And every time you went to unplug it you got a nice shock from it. It almost became like a stupid game. We would ask a new guy to use the outlet and watch him/her jump. what can I say we were a bunch of stupid cooks looking for a laugh. But many kitchens had all sort of electrical hazzards. Any code to prevent these is good IMHO. as a cook your hands are almost always damp or wet and you are constantly pluging and unpluging different equipment. And who's to say that down the road someone might find it necassary to move that big fridge to make room for something else? And If you dont put a gfci recept in youll have a hazzard like the one i described above.
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Ouch like crazy!! So tell me, does the SO cords that some of these kitchens have from the ceiling that have twist lock need to be gfci protected as well??
Ive seen a few kitchens that had alot of these from the ceiling for their mobile equipment (coolers on wheels etc..) that they move around alot cause they dont have much space. they are always interchanging them, pluggin one in and unplugging another one.

They have this SO female end comming from the ceiling and the equipment of course has the male end and they just plug it in that way, twistlock, 15 amp 120 v. They twistlock of course helps keep it more safe.

I know the code says "recetacle" and technically i dont think these are receptacles, but they use them almost the same as some.
 
brother said:
Ouch like crazy!! So tell me, does the SO cords that some of these kitchens have from the ceiling that have twist lock need to be gfci protected as well??
Ive seen a few kitchens that had alot of these from the ceiling for their mobile equipment (coolers on wheels etc..) that they move around alot cause they dont have much space. they are always interchanging them, pluggin one in and unplugging another one.

They have this SO female end comming from the ceiling and the equipment of course has the male end and they just plug it in that way, twistlock, 15 amp 120 v. They twistlock of course helps keep it more safe.

I know the code says "recetacle" and technically i dont think these are receptacles, but they use them almost the same as some.
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I have personally never seen these but I would definatly put if on a GFCI circut. They have steam kettles in some kitchens that you could take a bath in, but imagine your self with a big hand stick blender about 3 1/2 feet long pureeing 50 gallons of butternut squash soup although many of these tools are double insulated whose to say that the cook isnt leaning on the stainless steel pot and at the same time the so cord falls into the pot.. I know what your thinking what are the chances but you know as well as i do if you can dream it, it can happen. And much like us most cooks are as hard on tools and equipment like we are and who knows how long the recoil mechanism on the cord drop is going to last.
Like I said the chances are slim but it can happen
 
brother said:
Ouch like crazy!! So tell me, does the SO cords that some of these kitchens have from the ceiling that have twist lock need to be gfci protected as well??
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Wow, you know I think all inspectors will say yes, but I think your on to something. :cool:

After reading the definition of receptacle in Article 100 I feel that 210.8 does not apply to a female connector body on the end of a cord.

Even Article 406 differentiates between receptacles, cord connectors and attachment plugs.
 
iwire said:
Wow, you know I think all inspectors will say yes, but I think your on to something. :cool:

After reading the definition of receptacle in Article 100 I feel that 210.8 does not apply to a female connector body on the end of a cord.

Even Article 406 differentiates between receptacles, cord connectors and attachment plugs.
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how is a female connector body any less dangerous than a wall outlet?
 
tonyou812 said:
how is a female connector body any less dangerous than a wall outlet?
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I don't think connector bodies are less dangerous, I just think that as the code is currently written they are not required to be GFCI protected.
 
well i guess if the cord reel is a plug in type then Gfci if its hard wired then no gfci. Hmmm looks like an oversight to me... I guess thats what Ahj's are for. To pick up these oversights.
 
brother said:
Ouch like crazy!! So tell me, does the SO cords that some of these kitchens have from the ceiling that have twist lock need to be gfci protected as well??
Ive seen a few kitchens that had alot of these from the ceiling for their mobile equipment (coolers on wheels etc..) that they move around alot cause they dont have much space. they are always interchanging them, pluggin one in and unplugging another one.

They have this SO female end comming from the ceiling and the equipment of course has the male end and they just plug it in that way, twistlock, 15 amp 120 v. They twistlock of course helps keep it more safe.

I know the code says "recetacle" and technically i dont think these are receptacles, but they use them almost the same as some.
Click to expand...


As I posted in the other thread, you may want to read
210.50(A)Cord Pendants.
 
are current receptacles in kitchen grandfathed?

are current receptacles in kitchen grandfathed?

does this code apply to existing receptacles in kitchens, such as colleges, schools?

do they have to be replaced with gfci recs?

thanks
 
steveng said:
does this code apply to existing receptacles in kitchens, such as colleges, schools?

do they have to be replaced with gfci recs?

thanks
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I would think that if they were 'legal' when they were originally installed, then they are still legal now, so long as you havent had to replace or alter the wiring/receptacles after this NEC rule was adopted by your area.
 
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