Kitchen remodel includes under-cabinet low voltage lighting and range hood/microwave oven combination. Plan to locate receptacles for the small step-down lighting transformer and range hood combo inside kitchen cabinets. The lighting transformer will be on a switched circuit. Can these receptacles be part of the small appliance (NEC sec. 210) or must separate general purpose circuits be run for these loads?
Kitchen lights & power
- Thread starter ppower
- Start date
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jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Kitchen lights & power
422.16 (B) (4) Range Hoods. Range hoods shall be permitted to be cord-and-plug connected with a flexible cord identified as suitable for use on range hoods in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer, where all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The flexible cord is terminated with a grounding-type attachment plug.
Exception: A listed range hood distinctly marked to identify it as protected by a system of double insulation, or its equivalent, shall not be required to be terminated with a grounding-type attachment plug.
(2) The length of the cord is not less than 450 mm (18 in.) and not over 900 mm (36 in.).
(3) Receptacles are located to avoid physical damage to the flexible cord.
(4) The receptacle is accessible.
(5) The receptacle is supplied by an individual branch circuit.
edited to add
220.12 Lighting Load for Specified Occupancies.
A unit load of not less than that specified in Table 220.12 for occupancies specified therein shall constitute the minimum lighting load.
[ June 25, 2005, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
422.16 (B) (4) Range Hoods. Range hoods shall be permitted to be cord-and-plug connected with a flexible cord identified as suitable for use on range hoods in the installation instructions of the appliance manufacturer, where all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The flexible cord is terminated with a grounding-type attachment plug.
Exception: A listed range hood distinctly marked to identify it as protected by a system of double insulation, or its equivalent, shall not be required to be terminated with a grounding-type attachment plug.
(2) The length of the cord is not less than 450 mm (18 in.) and not over 900 mm (36 in.).
(3) Receptacles are located to avoid physical damage to the flexible cord.
(4) The receptacle is accessible.
(5) The receptacle is supplied by an individual branch circuit.
edited to add
220.12 Lighting Load for Specified Occupancies.
A unit load of not less than that specified in Table 220.12 for occupancies specified therein shall constitute the minimum lighting load.
[ June 25, 2005, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Kitchen lights & power
JW, he is asking about a micro hood not a standard range hood. That article does not apply to this. He is not asking for lighting load calculations either.
Anyway,
Ppower, the micro can not be on the sa circuit. Most manufacturers recommend a separate 20 amp circuit for the microhood. Good advice if you ask me. As for the lighting that can not be on the sa circuits either. These lights can be fed from a general purpose branch circuit. No need for separate circuit unless the load is huge.
[ June 25, 2005, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
JW, he is asking about a micro hood not a standard range hood. That article does not apply to this. He is not asking for lighting load calculations either.
Anyway,
Ppower, the micro can not be on the sa circuit. Most manufacturers recommend a separate 20 amp circuit for the microhood. Good advice if you ask me. As for the lighting that can not be on the sa circuits either. These lights can be fed from a general purpose branch circuit. No need for separate circuit unless the load is huge.
[ June 25, 2005, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Kitchen lights & power
Sorry didn?t see the microwave reference but it would be the same. Got up because the dogs was barking and sit down to wait and let them settle a little.
Sorry didn?t see the microwave reference but it would be the same. Got up because the dogs was barking and sit down to wait and let them settle a little.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Kitchen lights & power
422.16 (B) (4) would not apply to a microwave with or without a vent.
Cord and plug connected microwaves where always allowed.
What would be the same?
422.16 (B) (4) would not apply to a microwave with or without a vent.
Cord and plug connected microwaves where always allowed.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Kitchen lights & power
Unless the micro is plugged into the receptacle over the countertop (highly unlikely), then a receptacle supplied by an SA circuit inside a cabinet would violate 210.52(B)(2), IMO.
Were always allowed? What do you mean?Originally posted by iwire:
Cord and plug connected microwaves where always allowed.
Unless the micro is plugged into the receptacle over the countertop (highly unlikely), then a receptacle supplied by an SA circuit inside a cabinet would violate 210.52(B)(2), IMO.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Kitchen lights & power
George we are talking about over the range microwaves and I never said they where allowed on the SA circuit.Originally posted by georgestolz:
Were always allowed? What do you mean?Originally posted by iwire:
Cord and plug connected microwaves where always allowed.
Re: Kitchen lights & power
Thanks all for the help. Looks like a separate circuit is required for the micro/hood unit. Just another breaker space. The refrigerator can go on one of the sa circuits. Three breakers thus far.
Can a general purpose circuit be used the supply the dishwasher and the under-cabinet lighting ?The planned under-cabinet lights are low voltage and are supplied through a stepdown transformer to be located inside a cabinet. A switched receptacle is planned. The switch leg would be on the wall above the counter.
Thanks all for the help. Looks like a separate circuit is required for the micro/hood unit. Just another breaker space. The refrigerator can go on one of the sa circuits. Three breakers thus far.
Can a general purpose circuit be used the supply the dishwasher and the under-cabinet lighting ?The planned under-cabinet lights are low voltage and are supplied through a stepdown transformer to be located inside a cabinet. A switched receptacle is planned. The switch leg would be on the wall above the counter.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Kitchen lights & power
210.32 (A) (2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires (lighting fixtures), shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.
Watch the dishwasher it should be on a circuit. I would not put it on a circuit that has anything else.
210.32 (A) (2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires (lighting fixtures), shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Kitchen lights & power
You might get a dishwasher that draws 7 amps in which case a 20 amp circuit for the dw and the uc lights would work. Some of the fancy schmancy dw's draw up to 12 amps which would kill your plan. just curious, are you trying to run as few circuits as possible for a reason? I do about 75 kitchen remodels a year and I usually run as many circuits as I need. If there is no room to tie them in the people have to have a service upgrade or panel change.
You might get a dishwasher that draws 7 amps in which case a 20 amp circuit for the dw and the uc lights would work. Some of the fancy schmancy dw's draw up to 12 amps which would kill your plan. just curious, are you trying to run as few circuits as possible for a reason? I do about 75 kitchen remodels a year and I usually run as many circuits as I need. If there is no room to tie them in the people have to have a service upgrade or panel change.
Re: Kitchen lights & power
Thanks again for the advice. Originally, I planned to provide a separate feed to the dishwasher, but, the under cabinet lights are so light a load that it didn't seem worth a breaker space and the extra run. The u/c lights could go on the overhead lighting circuit, but, it's nice to have the lighting sources split up so some lights are always available. The service was upgraded to 150 amps a few years ago, so there are spaces available. Probably, because my background is in high voltage applications (5kv thru 230kV) that I get a bit stingy when it comes to adding breakers and main switches. The reasoning in some sections of the code escapes me, but with our help I'll get this right.
Thanks again for the advice. Originally, I planned to provide a separate feed to the dishwasher, but, the under cabinet lights are so light a load that it didn't seem worth a breaker space and the extra run. The u/c lights could go on the overhead lighting circuit, but, it's nice to have the lighting sources split up so some lights are always available. The service was upgraded to 150 amps a few years ago, so there are spaces available. Probably, because my background is in high voltage applications (5kv thru 230kV) that I get a bit stingy when it comes to adding breakers and main switches. The reasoning in some sections of the code escapes me, but with our help I'll get this right.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Kitchen lights & power
Originally posted by ppower:
The reasoning in some sections of the code escapes me, but with our help I'll get this right.
Re: Kitchen lights & power
One more question re the small appliance circuits. Can an outdoor receptacle be served from a small appliance circuit? The receptacle can be easily located on the outside surface of the same wall on which the kitchen receptacles are located. Note that the 210.52 seem to have some latitude for inclusion by the following clause similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch.....
One more question re the small appliance circuits. Can an outdoor receptacle be served from a small appliance circuit?
The receptacle can be easily located on the outside surface of the same wall on which the kitchen receptacles are located. Note that the 210.52 seem to have some latitude for inclusion by the following clause similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch.....luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Kitchen lights & power
Originally posted by ppower:
Can an outdoor receptacle be served from a small appliance circuit?
Not under the 2002 NEC. or the 1999 for that matter.
It was once allowed, but I can't remember which Code cycle had the change, 1993, or 1996.
The receptacle can be easily located on the outside surface of the same wall on which the kitchen receptacles are located.
If you must, you could come off of the lighting circut and add a GFCI receptacle. It would be Code compliant, but I hate doing it that way.
Note that the 210.52 seem to have some latitude for inclusion by the following clause similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch.....
I don't think that 'Outside' can even remotely be concidered a 'similar area'.
Bldg code for installing electrical range hood with shelf brackets?
Bldg code for installing electrical range hood with shelf brackets?
What is the bldg code for mounting a 12 pound residential electrical metal range. I need a range hood over my electric range. I will not be installing any wall cabinets. So far the best way I can figure out is to mount the range hood with metal shelf brackets.
I will have pot racks on each side of the stove area. And a hutch mounted on the base cabinets on the other side of the kitchen instead of wall cabinets. Plus I plan on some shelves in the kitchen. But my main question is the building code. I already have an electrical outlet for a future wall mount microwave if I decide on that later. The range hood will be hard wired and I have electrical for that also. According to the new building code how many inches must the range hood be installed above the stove and can I mount the range hood with metal shelf brackets. The metal brackets are much stronger to support more than just 12 pounds.
This link is a photo of my range hood, http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/richbound/range_hood_mounted_w_shelfbrackets.jpg
Bldg code for installing electrical range hood with shelf brackets?
What is the bldg code for mounting a 12 pound residential electrical metal range. I need a range hood over my electric range. I will not be installing any wall cabinets. So far the best way I can figure out is to mount the range hood with metal shelf brackets.
I will have pot racks on each side of the stove area. And a hutch mounted on the base cabinets on the other side of the kitchen instead of wall cabinets. Plus I plan on some shelves in the kitchen. But my main question is the building code. I already have an electrical outlet for a future wall mount microwave if I decide on that later. The range hood will be hard wired and I have electrical for that also. According to the new building code how many inches must the range hood be installed above the stove and can I mount the range hood with metal shelf brackets. The metal brackets are much stronger to support more than just 12 pounds.
This link is a photo of my range hood, http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/richbound/range_hood_mounted_w_shelfbrackets.jpg
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
What is your profession?
Wouldn't it be easier and less unattractive to put a small (useful) upper over your range?
Wouldn't it be easier and less unattractive to put a small (useful) upper over your range?
Pierre C Belarge
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
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It is amazing what some people will do!!!!!
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It is amazing what some people will do!!!!!
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
And it's also amazing what some people won't do.Pierre C Belarge said:
77401
Banned
Put the UCL lights on the kitchen lighting circuit.
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