Kitchen Outlets
- Thread starter richl
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gregoryelectricinc
Senior Member
Re: Kitchen Outlets
No max on quantity of outlets on an appliance circuit in a kitchen, Refer CAN be part of the sam circuit, but 15 amp cicuits are NOT allowed for this application. Please review article 210 of NEC before you start or hire a local electrical contractor (ussually money WELL spent).
No max on quantity of outlets on an appliance circuit in a kitchen, Refer CAN be part of the sam circuit, but 15 amp cicuits are NOT allowed for this application. Please review article 210 of NEC before you start or hire a local electrical contractor (ussually money WELL spent).
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: Kitchen Outlets
Refrigerator can be on a 15 amp circuit provided it is a dedicated circuit for the fridge.
Refrigerator can be on a 15 amp circuit provided it is a dedicated circuit for the fridge.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Kitchen Outlets
a 15 amp dedicated circuit means it is a single receptacle on a strap. A duplex becomes a multipurpose branch circuit, and would have to be 12 AWG with 20A OCPD.
Why not just run another 20amp ckt to the fridge and hit another counter with it, can also run to stove if its gas (for its 120V).
a 15 amp dedicated circuit means it is a single receptacle on a strap. A duplex becomes a multipurpose branch circuit, and would have to be 12 AWG with 20A OCPD.
Why not just run another 20amp ckt to the fridge and hit another counter with it, can also run to stove if its gas (for its 120V).
Re: Kitchen Outlets
i understand your answer!!BUT
this held to letter of the code will cause the romex contractors to cheapen the job by putting the ref. on the appliance circuit as required , i know what this sounds like, but it stinks ,the rec can not be accessed anyway! GEO
[ August 19, 2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: vanwalker ]
i understand your answer!!BUT
this held to letter of the code will cause the romex contractors to cheapen the job by putting the ref. on the appliance circuit as required , i know what this sounds like, but it stinks ,the rec can not be accessed anyway! GEO
[ August 19, 2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: vanwalker ]
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: Kitchen Outlets
Tom, I think you mean "multi outlet" and yes you are correct when you say just run another 20 amp circuit. Based on the initial question the only proper response is "Call an electrician". Vanwalker what exactly is a "romex contractor?"
Tom, I think you mean "multi outlet" and yes you are correct when you say just run another 20 amp circuit. Based on the initial question the only proper response is "Call an electrician". Vanwalker what exactly is a "romex contractor?"
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Kitchen Outlets
vanwalker
The refridgerator is able to be moved, therefore the NEC refers to this as accessible. A single receptacle as Tom has mentioned would be required.
The NEC is the minimum reqiured, but what one has to try and keep in his mind is 'budget'. There are some people who do not have the 'budget' that others do, when this occurs on the job, putting the fridge on the small appliance circuit is not such a bad thing. There are many refridgerators that will not over tax the circuit, but there are some people who the extra circuit may over tax their 'budget'.
Doing a 'good' job also includes being sensitive to what the client needs and can afford all at the same time. I am one of those "romex contractors", and I do not believe I cheapen the job ever!!! Politically correct or not.
Your bio says you are a student, what are you studying for?
Pierre
[ August 20, 2003, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
vanwalker
The refridgerator is able to be moved, therefore the NEC refers to this as accessible. A single receptacle as Tom has mentioned would be required.
The NEC is the minimum reqiured, but what one has to try and keep in his mind is 'budget'. There are some people who do not have the 'budget' that others do, when this occurs on the job, putting the fridge on the small appliance circuit is not such a bad thing. There are many refridgerators that will not over tax the circuit, but there are some people who the extra circuit may over tax their 'budget'.
Doing a 'good' job also includes being sensitive to what the client needs and can afford all at the same time. I am one of those "romex contractors", and I do not believe I cheapen the job ever!!! Politically correct or not.
Your bio says you are a student, what are you studying for?
Pierre
[ August 20, 2003, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
skd76
Member
- Location
- California
Re: Kitchen Outlets
If y'all MUST put the reefer on a receptacle outlet fed from one of the small appliance circuits PLEASE make it the first one - so a downstream GFI trip doesn't spoil the milk. I just hate when that happens!
If y'all MUST put the reefer on a receptacle outlet fed from one of the small appliance circuits PLEASE make it the first one - so a downstream GFI trip doesn't spoil the milk. I just hate when that happens!
Re: Kitchen Outlets
PIERRE
electric is all i know and seem to learn something everyday , this suits MY PROFILE!
I UNDERSTAND budgets , NEC being a minimum to begin with , i can and will choose my work.
not being good with words what is a person that only uses romex called ????-- this is not a joke ! GEO
PIERRE
electric is all i know and seem to learn something everyday , this suits MY PROFILE!
I UNDERSTAND budgets , NEC being a minimum to begin with , i can and will choose my work.
not being good with words what is a person that only uses romex called ????-- this is not a joke ! GEO
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Kitchen Outlets
Vanwalker
Why not call him/her and electrician?
The profile I was refering to is the one you set up with this site.
Pierre
Vanwalker
Why not call him/her and electrician?
The profile I was refering to is the one you set up with this site.
Pierre
Re: Kitchen Outlets
Have seen someone who only does residential or romex work refered to as a residential wireman. I hate residential work but when I would wire a house, (and believe me, you have to beg me to wire a house),I never put more than two duplex outlets on a circuit, and the microwave, refrigerator, dishwasher, and disposal were all on circuits by themselves with single outlets on a yoke. I know its expensive but I won't wire a house any less than I would want mine wired.
Have seen someone who only does residential or romex work refered to as a residential wireman. I hate residential work but when I would wire a house, (and believe me, you have to beg me to wire a house),I never put more than two duplex outlets on a circuit, and the microwave, refrigerator, dishwasher, and disposal were all on circuits by themselves with single outlets on a yoke. I know its expensive but I won't wire a house any less than I would want mine wired.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: Kitchen Outlets
I use romex every day. I am a master electrician. I am now biting my tounge and walking away. Good posts Pierre, don't take the bait. There's one in every group. :roll:
I use romex every day. I am a master electrician. I am now biting my tounge and walking away. Good posts Pierre, don't take the bait. There's one in every group. :roll:
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Kitchen Outlets
I've seen plenty of strip stores(commercial jobs) wired completely in 'romex'.
PA has no statewide licenseing.
I've seen plenty of strip stores(commercial jobs) wired completely in 'romex'.
PA has no statewide licenseing.
Re: Kitchen Outlets
there must be one in every group? wonderful.
no disrespect was meant, but following the posts,and looking at the profile,i am not and never will be one of these kind of electrician!
i was here to learn,and sorry i can not agree with "there are no dumb questions"(electricians profile)
if this get's edited so be it ,THIS WAS NOT THE INTENT!don't waste anymore time on this one
KO? NO MORE QUESTIONS FROM ME. GEO
there must be one in every group? wonderful.
no disrespect was meant, but following the posts,and looking at the profile,i am not and never will be one of these kind of electrician!
i was here to learn,and sorry i can not agree with "there are no dumb questions"(electricians profile)
if this get's edited so be it ,THIS WAS NOT THE INTENT!don't waste anymore time on this one
KO? NO MORE QUESTIONS FROM ME. GEO
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Kitchen Outlets
Vanwalker
When writing and reading the posts on any of these forums, it is sometimes difficult to grasp the idea and intent of the person posting. I have been following this forum for about 6 months and still I am not sure what the intent of some posts are. One thing for sure is that some of the people here are extremely good at what they do, even if it is hard to relate in written words. They are experts in their field, but maybe not so much in the written end of it. The posts you wrote may not have had the intent of being malicious, but sounded that way. Again writing one's ideas and conveying what you are really trying to say sometimes are two different things
. I know that I myself sometimes find it very difficult and have had to apologize for my ineptitude. You will learn here not to take it personel, most guys have only good intent. The guys who responded to your post have had some of the best posts since I have been here.
One other thing - Remember that all of the responses here are the opinion of the writer, and are in the nature of advice. The different codes and the AHJ have the final say in your jurisdiction.
Don't quit here, everyone's input is very important!!!
Pierre
Vanwalker
When writing and reading the posts on any of these forums, it is sometimes difficult to grasp the idea and intent of the person posting. I have been following this forum for about 6 months and still I am not sure what the intent of some posts are. One thing for sure is that some of the people here are extremely good at what they do, even if it is hard to relate in written words. They are experts in their field, but maybe not so much in the written end of it. The posts you wrote may not have had the intent of being malicious, but sounded that way. Again writing one's ideas and conveying what you are really trying to say sometimes are two different things
. I know that I myself sometimes find it very difficult and have had to apologize for my ineptitude. You will learn here not to take it personel, most guys have only good intent. The guys who responded to your post have had some of the best posts since I have been here.One other thing - Remember that all of the responses here are the opinion of the writer, and are in the nature of advice. The different codes and the AHJ have the final say in your jurisdiction.
Don't quit here, everyone's input is very important!!!
Pierre
abode electric
Member
- Location
- New jersey
Re: Kitchen Outlets
I like to think of myself as an "NMC contractor" the wire doesn't have to be "romex" brand for me.
I like to think of myself as an "NMC contractor" the wire doesn't have to be "romex" brand for me.
cselectric
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
Re: Kitchen Outlets
I'll go out on a limb here... Are you by chance from the Chicago area Van?
I've heard the terms "Romex contractor," "Romex Jockey," and "Rope slinger" used frequently in this neck of the woods. Not all of it is derogetory but some is (ie: "romex hack" also a common term.) At best it's a statement designed to differentiate those who run NM and those who run EMT. The term "residential wireman" doesn't fit here, as Chicago is the one market where housing is routinely done in EMT (required anywhere Chicago code is adopted.) At worst, it is a derogatory term that derives from the common practice in the Chicago suburbs of low ball contractors hiring kids fresh out of high school, teaching them next to nothing and turning them loose to wreak havoc on the electrical world. While I realize that most contractors don't behave in that way, it would seem that enough have in the Chicago burbs to give anyone who uses Romex a black eye. Ad to that the fact that the EMT users have to either talk themselves up or bad mouth Romex to make the sale, as they can't compete on price and it can get a bit out of hand.
I'll go out on a limb here... Are you by chance from the Chicago area Van?
I've heard the terms "Romex contractor," "Romex Jockey," and "Rope slinger" used frequently in this neck of the woods. Not all of it is derogetory but some is (ie: "romex hack" also a common term.) At best it's a statement designed to differentiate those who run NM and those who run EMT. The term "residential wireman" doesn't fit here, as Chicago is the one market where housing is routinely done in EMT (required anywhere Chicago code is adopted.) At worst, it is a derogatory term that derives from the common practice in the Chicago suburbs of low ball contractors hiring kids fresh out of high school, teaching them next to nothing and turning them loose to wreak havoc on the electrical world. While I realize that most contractors don't behave in that way, it would seem that enough have in the Chicago burbs to give anyone who uses Romex a black eye. Ad to that the fact that the EMT users have to either talk themselves up or bad mouth Romex to make the sale, as they can't compete on price and it can get a bit out of hand.
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