Kitchen Remodel Estimate

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jeff43222

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Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
I just went out for an estimate for a kitchen remodel job, and I'm not quite sure how to estimate it. I typically do smaller remodel jobs where I have to fish wire and deal with all sorts of obstacles, and I usually am the only contractor on the job, i.e., homeowner calls me and just wants their electrical devices fixed or updated.

On this job, though, the entire kitchen has been torn out, right down to the studs and joists. I'd be working with a GC who is doing the carpentry, cabinets, etc. All the electric in the kitchen will be new. Also, the kitchen is located right above the panelboard in the unfinished basement. The kitchen will have a dishwasher, disposal, about 10 4" and 5" recessed cans, about 10 puck lights in the cabinets, and the usual number of receptacles and switches.

The main thing I'm not sure about is how much time this will take me (I'm a one-man shop). I have a pretty good idea on materials. I was thinking probably a day to rough and a day or two to trim.

Anyone else care to throw in their $0.02?
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

you are at the mercy of the g.c. --remember that! the material is easy --the labor figure depends on the efficiency and progress of the other trades. until you get an idea of how this g.c.'s subcontractors operate --- be careful. each trip out to the job costs you money. example: you go to trim out the dishwasher has not been delivered and requires a hard wire connection. or the ceiling has not been painted and you can't install the recess fixture trim? or you go to rough and find a wingwall missing? my .02 cents!
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

I suspect the job will ultimately take more than two trips, but I'm not all that concerned about the GC. He and the homeowner have been very easy to work with so far, and they were more concerned about me being available because they want to move quickly with this job (it's for a remodeling TV show). The convenience factor isn't a huge concern because it's only about 10 minutes from home, and it's in an area where I do a lot of work, anyway.

I do appreciate your warnings, though. I guess I'll just have to play it by ear in terms of scheduling.
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

if you get free advertising, you might be able to pick and choose down the line. One of the programs that we know (national) or do you not want to tell us?

the exposure should be worth a moderate price, but be careful. it does sound like it could be too many cooks. structure bid for time with reaonable cap or load it up front as much as possible. my 2 cents

paul
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

I'm not sure if I would be listed in the credits for the episode, but even if I were, it's not exactly going to be emphasized. Those home remodeling shows generally don't show the electrical work very prominently. I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be any plans to show me pulling wire.

As for the show itself, I'm not sure if it's OK for me to say which one it is, but it is syndicated nationally on multiple networks. I've watched the show previously on several occasions.

It would be nice if the exposure leads to more job leads, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I just think it would be a fun job overall. I gave the GC my bid tonight, and they'll probably get back to me tomorrow or Friday.

Fingers crossed...
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

Originally posted by jeff43222:
I'm not sure if I would be listed in the credits for the episode, but even if I were, it's not exactly going to be emphasized. Those home remodeling shows generally don't show the electrical work very prominently. I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be any plans to show me pulling wire.
Click to expand...
That irritates me. And I'm not even remotely close to getting on TV. :D
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

I figured conservatively that the job would take two solid days, added in materials, and bid the whole job for $1600 + permit fees. Since I'll probably wind up taking more than two days and will probably have to make multiple trips to accommodate the filming and other construction, I think my bid was reasonable. I ran the number past a few friends, and one even commented that they thought it was a little low.

I gave the GC the bid last night over the phone and faxed him a hard copy this morning. I haven't heard back yet.
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

Jeff,

I just bid a kitchen remodel with less recessed lights, but is not down to the studs. I was over 2K for the receptacles and appliance wiring alone. Add about 1100 for the undercabinet Xenon sockets.

I have talked to some contractors and they are over $80 per recessed alone. Think about the price difference, 4" cans and trims cost me over $50 in parts alone, a 6" in less than $20.

You would also have a lot of layout time for all those lights.
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

Yeah, that would make it considerably more expensive, but the GC/homeowner is supplying all lighting fixtures. The GC also told me he has several 250' rolls of 14/2 and 12/2 that I can use. So my material costs are the receptacle boxes, the receptacles, the switches, etc. That shouldn't be too bad.

The joists and studs are wide open, everything else has been torn out, and the panelboard is directly below the kitchen in an unfinished basement. I don't think a complete kitchen remodel could be any easier to wire than this one. Still, it will probably take me more time than I'm estimating. Since I'm a one-man shop, though, it's not a big deal.

I still haven't heard back about my bid. I hope they didn't decide that my low bid would translate to sloppy work and inferior materials. If a job takes more time than I expect, that's just my tough luck; I keep working until the job is done to my satisfaction and don't charge any extra. Every once in a while a job takes less time than I expect.

I also hope they didn't think my bid was too high. Labor rates in my area are billed out at $70-$100/hour.
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

(I also hope they didn't think my bid was too high. Labor rates in my area are billed out at $70-$100/hour)
Where are you located to have those labor rates?
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

I'm in Minneapolis. I generally work in the city.

The rates are what other people have told me they were quoted when they called an electrical contractor about having work done. Those are the billed rates, not the rates paid to electricians. I think IBEW journeyman scale in this area is around $30/hour straight wages, plus $12-$15/hour in benefits.

I don't think those billed rates are out of line when you consider overhead.
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

Just remember the low bidders are crippling this industry!!! Always charge more than $150 per hour minimum plus any job under $500 charge $89 service fee we must stick together
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

I certainly didn't become a contractor to low-bid myself into the poor house. On the other hand, we can only charge what the market will bear.

I'm a one-man shop who does primarily residential work, which doesn't pay as much as commercial. There's no way I could get away with $150/hour. Just the other day I submitted a bid to a homeowner for three separate jobs, and she accepted my bid on one (the lowest of the three) but not the other two. She's decided to just skip the other two jobs.

A lot of the requests I get are from people who would *like* this or that done, but it isn't an emergency. The deciding factor for them is if the work they'd like done is affordable.

[ January 29, 2005, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

I'm with you on that Jeff. $150/hr as a minimum? I'd be laughed out of town around here. When everyone else averages about $80, I couldn't justify it.
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

Jeff, Cut down on the 'return factor' by having the GC purchase all fixed-in-place appliances with cord connection to receptacle outlets. (i.e. Disposer, DW, compactor, micro, range, etc.) This way you don't need to come back for every late appliance delivery or plumbing installation.

Make sure the cabinet lighting system is schematic defined with the floor plan and cabinet specifications so there won't be any surprises after the custom cabinet delivery.

rbj, Seattle

[ January 30, 2005, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: gndrod ]
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

I did think about the appliance wiring situation, and I was planning on bringing it up if I got the job (still waiting to hear). My thinking was that I could do the rough-in right away and wait for the *all* appliances to be delivered before trimming it out. Either that, or insist on all cord-n-plug like you suggested.

They were good about giving me schematics showing placement of all fixtures and receptacles.
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

What I am saying is you don't need to let the others dictate your rates. Set yourself aside from the rest. A one man operation has less volume but still have the same overhead truck,tools,TAXES,office,insurance,inventory,etc. 2005 you still need a pay check and profit to succeed.More than half of one man operation fail because they work for a pay check only and that lowers the rates for all.
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

I'm definitely taking all that into consideration. Trust me -- I know what kind of overhead my business has, and I factor that into every estimate I give. A lot of people nearly pass out when I tell them how much their "minor" job will cost. Yesterday I quoted a guy around $500 (incl. labor, materials, and permit) for a subpanel installation, to include inspecting/fixing/connecting five new circuits of DIY work he did without a permit. I nearly had to pick him up off the floor. There are plenty of monetary expenses they don't see, not to mention all the time I have to spend doing paperwork, pulling permits, arranging for inspections, buying materials, driving around, etc.

As a one-man shop, I can keep my overhead a little lower than a larger shop. I don't have to buy workers comp or unemployment insurance, and my liability premium is much lower than it would be if I had employees. I also work out of an office in my house and use my personal vehicle on the job. Sure, I'm limited to taking relatively small jobs, but that's OK by me. The kinds of jobs I want to do are pretty much the size I can handle.

Update: I got the call from the GC this morning. I got the job! I'm meeting with him and the crew tomorrow to discuss details and scheduling.
 
Re: Kitchen Remodel Estimate

A star is born! We'll be watching for you.
smiley_tv.gif
 
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