KITCHEN REMODEL

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maintenance man

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My brothers and I rewired a large kitchen in a our familys home which has a 200amp 120/240 v. service . We put a 100amp subpanel near the kitchen to limit the distance to the main panel. In this kitchen we have a 20a circuit for large fig and freezer ,2 counter top circuits, dishwasher circuit, micro circuit , double electric oven another electric, oven with a range, a 40amp ac circuit and light circuit.

Both the main service and the sub is in ser al cable. The question is did the sub have to be sized at 1/0 100 amp because of it being ser al cable ?
Or was it possible to be size a little smaller ?
 
maintenance man said:
Both the main service and the sub is in ser al cable. The question is did the sub have to be sized at 1/0 100 amp because of it being ser al cable ?
Or was it possible to be size a little smaller ?
Click to expand...

If the SER was ran in any insulation then 1/0 was the right size. If it wasn't you could have ran #1.

My SH here don't carry a lot of different sizes SER so I would have had to either order it or go with the 1/0 anyway.
 
curt swartz said:
I have never seen SER cable that didn't have a bare conductor and a white conductor.
Click to expand...
Then Southwire's description of their aluminum SER is a little strange, since it refers to colored (black and black with various stripes) phase conductors and a bare non-concentric neutral, and no ground.
Their description of their copper SER, on the other hand, discusses N phases plus neutral and a bare ground, presumably using white for the neutral.

I have not done any hands on work with SER, so I can't say how to reconcile the two descriptions.
 
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Answers to some of the questions.

1. the ocpd is a 100amp breaker .There was a discussion of using a smaller cable and circuit breaker, but than it was said that it had to be 100 amp because it was a feeder. Is this so ? The appliances breakers were sized by the manufactor and the ac was @ 40amp 240v.
2. The cable was a AL 4wire 1/0 .

3. This cable was not in a raceway of any type , 2 phase conductors and one black with white strip and a bare conductor in a plastic or pvc type jacket.
 
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maintenance man said:
Answers to some of the questions.

1. the ocpd is a 100amp breaker .There was a discussion of using a smaller cable and circuit breaker, but than it was said that it had to be 100 amp because it was a feeder. <<Not true Is this so ? The appliances breakers were sized by the manufactor and the ac was @ 40amp 240v.
2. The cable was a AL 4wire 1/0 . Is sized properly.

3. This cable was not in a raceway of any type , 2 phase conductors and one black with white strip and a bare conductor in a plastic or pvc type jacket.(1) black, (1) black with red strip (1) black with white strip and (1) bare. OK
Click to expand...


I don't see anything wrong with this installation.
 
Three continuous stripes or re-identification is required which could be one turn of white tape around the conductor. Does SE cable have 3-white stripes?
 
maintenance man said:
There was a discussion of using a smaller cable and circuit breaker, but than it was said that it had to be 100 amp because it was a feeder. Is this so ?
Click to expand...

Feeder only needs to be 100 amp if you have a load calculation over 90 amps but less then 101 amps. Otherwise you can use a smaller (but still greater or equal to connected load) or larger feeder if desired.

Just off top of my head I bet you could possibly get away with as little as 60 amp feeder but is possible you may need up to at least 80 amps. You need to find out what demand factors you may be able to apply to know for certain.

Your 20 amp circuit for fridge and freezer maybe only sees 3 or 4 amps from each, but if actually in the kitchen, pantry, dining etc. is still a small appliance branch circuit so 1500 VA is what code says needs applied to it. Ranges and ovens can generally have nameplates reduced for service and feeder calculations in art 220, You said 40 amp AC circuit - likely meaning a 40 amp breaker - but what is the actual rated load? Probably only 40-60% of that, many units that call for a 40 amp breaker will only have a MCA of maybe 23 amps or so, in which the MCA includes 125% of the compressor RLA, so this compressor maybe only pulls 18-19 amps when fully loaded.
 
GoldDigger said:
Then Southwire's description of their aluminum SER is a little strange, since it refers to colored (black and black with various stripes) phase conductors and a bare non-concentric neutral, and no ground.
Their description of their copper SER, on the other hand, discusses N phases plus neutral and a bare ground, presumably using white for the neutral.
Click to expand...

SER is 3-conductor AL plus ground. SEU is two insulated AL conductors with one bare ground/neutral wrapped around them. There are probably other configurations but these are what are typically used in residential work.
 
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maintenance man said:
My brothers and I rewired a large kitchen in a our familys home which has a 200amp 120/240 v. service . We put a 100amp subpanel near the kitchen to limit the distance to the main panel. In this kitchen we have a 20a circuit for large fig and freezer ,2 counter top circuits, dishwasher circuit, micro circuit , double electric oven another electric, oven with a range, a 40amp ac circuit and light circuit.

Both the main service and the sub is in ser al cable. The question is did the sub have to be sized at 1/0 100 amp because of it being ser al cable ?
Or was it possible to be size a little smaller ?
Click to expand...

As long as you can use the 75-degree column in table 315 then #1 AL is good. 1/0 would be for the 60-degree column. I can't tell you how often I see guys with licenses run #2 AL for subpanels or other loads and put it on a 100a breaker.
 
maintenance man said:
Answers to some of the questions.

1. the ocpd is a 100amp breaker .There was a discussion of using a smaller cable and circuit breaker, but than it was said that it had to be 100 amp because it was a feeder. Is this so ?
Click to expand...

The discussion/confusion was probably concerning the allowance for service or feeder to a dwelling that serves the entire load to the house/dwelling, which is 310.15(B)(6)
It derates or allows smaller conductor sizes than what otherwise is required per table 310.16.

For example:
per table 310.16 a 100A breaker would need a #1 al conductor if allowed from the 75 deg. column

If the same 100A breaker served the entire load for a dwelling you could use a #2 al
per 310.15(B)(6)
 
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