Knob and Tube Wiring

[zcanyonboltz]

I have a home that has knob and tube wiring still functioning in the ceiling and walls on the main level and upstairs. The lower level was changed to romex in the 60s, basement access allowed for this. My question is lm going to redevice the house. Should l use Alumicons to go from the knob and tube to new copper landing on devices? I am going to inspect attic for any knob and tube exposed to insulation. If exposed l will j-box to romex.
I have never worked with knob and tube. To clarify l hold and expired RW and current JW and Master license in my state. Most people l know have not worked this wire either other than demo and replacement. Im not opening any walls right now. Thanks

 

[hbiss]

Why would you use Alumicons to connect to K&T wiring? It's not aluminum, it's tinned copper. Aluminum wiring was unheard of in those days!

With that aside, you really need to abandon all the existing K&T and start over with NM!

-Hal

 

[zcanyonboltz]

Why would you use Alumicons to connect to K&T wiring? It's not aluminum, it's tinned copper. Aluminum wiring was unheard of in those days!

With that aside, you really need to abandon all the existing K&T and start over with NM!

-Hal

True. I could use wire nuts to get K&T from contacting devices, l was just over thinking alumiconns may be better. But yes l have redeviced houses with 1940s rag wire and used wirenuts. Just overthinking a bit. Im not ready to do a full on remodel and open up smooth finiish lathe and plaster walls yet. The boxes I've opened have brittle insulation similar to rag wire. Someone changed out some light fixtures and used crimp style automobile splices to get K&T off light fixtures.

 

[zcanyonboltz]

The receptacles in walls upstairs will be easier to rewire via attic access. The tough ones lm thinking about are the switch legs on main level and three wire drop on stairway.

 

[junkhound]

Heat shrink tubing and heat gun are your friends for holding 'brittle insulation' ;rag wire' (using your terms) together when you need to bend it to terminate to a device or pigtail. 60 years ago used glass braid as did not have heat shrink when I upgraded parts of grandma's 1907 wiring. - milk it on, pull lit tight and tape with 'friction tape'. Ah, the good old days .....

 

[hbiss]

Im not ready to do a full on remodel and open up smooth finiish lathe and plaster walls yet.

You shouldn't have to do much opening up of the walls if you know how to fish. There are usually several ways to get where you need to go. You don't use the existing boxes either. You cut new ones in and you will have to do more for receptacles to code.

-Hal

 

[romex jockey]

1/2 my locality exists on K&T, which has been condemned by the 'insurance cabal' for some time now.

There's no real good way to interface modern anything into it w/out violating multiple codes &/or listings

That said, i did have one past ahj sold on afci protection.....until he started reading up on them..... ~RJ~

 

[Hv&Lv]

I realize you don’t need them as HBISS stated, but an aside...
at the cost of the alumicons it would be cheaper to rewire...

 

[zcanyonboltz]

I realize you don’t need them as HBISS stated, but an aside...
at the cost of the alumicons it would be cheaper to rewire...

For sure a bag of 50 3 ports is the same price as 1000' of 14-2.

 

[Coppersmith]

IMHO, assuming there is not an asbestos problem, rewiring would be the right solution. You already have conductors with unstable insulation. You probably have a lot of improvements in receptacle, switch, and lamp placements you could make. You probably could improve your grounding situation.

Repairing walls is not that expensive. Having safe and modern wiring is priceless.

 

[growler]

You shouldn't have to do much opening up of the walls if you know how to fish.

The thing about fishing is that it can take some time. The labor cost normally get people but if you are doing it for yourself that's different.

I have fished wires where other contractors said it was impossible, it wasn't impossible, just slow and difficult.

 

[LarryFine]

For sure a bag of 50 3 ports is the same price as 1000' of 14-2.

However, they do make great splices for auxiliary wiring on motorcycles.

 

[ramsy]

Heat shrink tubing and heat gun are your friends for holding 'brittle insulation' ;rag wire' (using your terms) together when you need to bend it to terminate to a device or pigtail. 60 years ago used glass braid as did not have heat shrink when I upgraded parts of grandma's 1907 wiring. - milk it on, pull lit tight and tape with 'friction tape'. Ah, the good old days .....

Knob & Tube was some amazing craftmanship. Would like to see what Glass braid looks like. Both methods gone before I was born in 66. If only modern methods required half the craftsmanship.

The wiser I get, the more I avoid attics, and fishing behind walls. Hitting diaganal blocks & drilling hidden cables gets expensive. Cutting off stuck fish tapes also hurts. Breathed lots of drill dust from walls & attics, Lead, Asbestose, Vermin Fecies, and other good stuff.

What can't be absorbed thru lungs gets in the hair, disolves with sweat on the scalp. By the time a shower is possible hours later, its too late. All pathogens & toxins accumulated in old buildings have been absorbed, coarsing thru your viens, and accumulating in vital organs.

 

[synchro]

The receptacles in walls upstairs will be easier to rewire via attic access. The tough ones lm thinking about are the switch legs on main level and three wire drop on stairway.

For a switch loop it might help to install a wireless relay and remote switch, for example the Levition LevNet ones below:

LevNet RF 902 MHz Line Voltage Relay Receiver in 100-277V, 50/60 Hz, WSP20-9D0

The levnet RF 902 MHz line voltage relay receiver receives signals from levnet RF self-powered sensors, switches, and other devices or loads and controls larger lighting loads or Groups and motor loads such as fans, pumps and gates. The receiver includes isolated contacts that can switch power...

store.leviton.com

LevNet RF Wireless Decora Remote Switch, WSS0S-S9

LevNet RF 902 MHz Wireless Remote Entry Stations (used for dimming and switching) can control an unlimited number of LevNet 902 MHz RF Receivers in range.

store.leviton.com

Not cheap but might be much easier.

 

[zcanyonboltz]

For a switch loop it might help to install a wireless relay and remote switch, for example the Levition LevNet ones below:

LevNet RF 902 MHz Line Voltage Relay Receiver in 100-277V, 50/60 Hz, WSP20-9D0

The levnet RF 902 MHz line voltage relay receiver receives signals from levnet RF self-powered sensors, switches, and other devices or loads and controls larger lighting loads or Groups and motor loads such as fans, pumps and gates. The receiver includes isolated contacts that can switch power...

store.leviton.com

LevNet RF Wireless Decora Remote Switch, WSS0S-S9

LevNet RF 902 MHz Wireless Remote Entry Stations (used for dimming and switching) can control an unlimited number of LevNet 902 MHz RF Receivers in range.

store.leviton.com

Not cheap but might be much easier.

Thanks l will look into those.

 

[ramsy]

For a switch loop it might help to install a wireless relay and remote switch, for example the Levition LevNet ones below:

LevNet RF 902 MHz Line Voltage Relay Receiver in 100-277V, 50/60 Hz, WSP20-9D0

The levnet RF 902 MHz line voltage relay receiver receives signals from levnet RF self-powered sensors, switches, and other devices or loads and controls larger lighting loads or Groups and motor loads such as fans, pumps and gates. The receiver includes isolated contacts that can switch power...

store.leviton.com

Specifications

https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/G-9324A_LevNet_RF_902_MHz_Line_Voltage_Receiver_REV_MAY_2018.pdf

That would burn up in attics of tropical climates.
Attics in my region exceed 50°c for ~6 months of the year.

From the 1950's to 1970's low voltage relay lighting was designed into attics in my area.
Those old relays survived 60°C attic temperatures for several years. They don't make new relays the way they used to.

 

[synchro]

Specifications

https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/G-9324A_LevNet_RF_902_MHz_Line_Voltage_Receiver_REV_MAY_2018.pdf

That would burn up in attics of tropical climates.
Attics in my region exceed 50°c for ~6 months of the year.

Fortunately it sounds like the OP will not have a problem wiring directly from the attic, and so there's no need for any relays there:

The receptacles in walls upstairs will be easier to rewire via attic access. The tough ones lm thinking about are the switch legs on main level and three wire drop on stairway.