know when to fold them?? why is working so hard sometimes. part 1

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brantmacga

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
i could write a book about how pissed i am right now, but instead i'll write only a chapter length. :smile: really, this post is way too long, but its as short as i could get it.

and the story goes. . . . . .

6 weeks ago i was asked to submit a bid on some residential work in a jurisdiction just north of tallahassee, fl, that i've never worked in. i was pretty excited about it because my wife works in this town and i send my son to school there, so i thought if i picked up work nearby i'd be able to see them during the week at lunch, etc. . .

before submitting my bid, i called the zoning office, the administration office, and the utility company. i wanted to know exactly what it was going to cost me just to be there.

on my first call to the zoning office, i got an inspector on the phone and asked what there local amendments were. he told me briefly a few things he would specifically require, such as red and blue tape on ungrounded service conductors (single phase), ufer grounds, and a lot of stapling. well that was easy enough for me; nothing that was a big hassle.

at the administration office, i asked the cost of a permit and if i they would accept my occupational license from the county i live in, which they did.

i spoke w/ an engineer at the utility company and asked what would be required for temp and permanent service. the only thing he told me to do was bury 3" conduit 48" from the meter to the ped (btw, he called the line from the trans. to the meter the primary). and best of all, they would GIVE me the 3"-2 1/2" reducing coupling; yippee!

i gave my price, i got the jobs; all was well.

i went to purchase my temp. service permit. surprise, the cost was $25 more than i was originally told because she "forgot about the mandatory $25 permit fee". next, she tells me that i have to buy a city contractors license. this is where i get suspicious. i told her to hold off on the permit and let me do some checking because i knew this was illegal. i came back the next day to inquire more about this contractors license, and it turns out another outsider came in after me that day and had already called the state. there was a pretty tall stack of refund checks on her desk. so i also asked for a copy of all local code amendments, in writing, and was told she didn't have a copy. she gave me an inkpen w/ a website address printed on the side and said "go here, and you can print them out." i went to the website, http://www.developthomasville.org and looked under the electrical section. it says they go by the '99 nec. that's it, other than administration, etc. ..

so i get my permit and go drop my pole. the GC calls me the next day and said the inspection passed and to call the utility company, which i did. the utility comes to hook it up and calls to ask me where the feeder is. i said, "what feeder? you supply that." nope, sorry we forgot to tell you that the EC has to supply that. well, there's another $30 out of my pocket. i check my voicemail the following monday and have a message from the engineer; "you're feeder conductors won't reach (which btw, he measured and gave the length of what i needed to me over the phone) and we don't do splices." the wire was about 6" too short. things get loud and i hang up. i have to buy another feeder, drive over and replace it. $36 in wire, $15 in gas, 2 hours of time. i said to myself, "surely things can't get any worse." 14 days after buying my permit and setting my pole, i finally have temp service, and the world makes sense again.

--- okay part 2 is below, i didn't think about just replying within my own thread to post the rest. -------
 
i get a call last week that the first house is ready for me to wire. i'm excited to get started because i've never worked with this company, and hope after using me they'll never look back. i wire this house just as perfect as one could. man, everything is exactly as the code says it should be. i've got almost three boxes of staples in the job, my nice steel boxes, perfectly soldered joints; i'm making myself look real good here trying to impress the GC and the inspector; i'm thinking, "this inspectors not going to know what to think of this work; its ssoooo good!" (i really love what i do and try to make it the best i possibly can)

yesterday, the superintendent calls me. he sounds extremely pissed. "when can you be here?", he asks. "well, i'm an hour away" i tell him. "the inspector is here and we've got some problems" says he in an even more displeased voice. "put him on the phone", i said.

"hey buddy, well, we've got some issues here. we don't allow the use of 14 gauge wire here. you should have checked with me before you wired this house." i replied to him, "well sir, i did. i went to your office and asked for a copy of your amendments." i told him about the website and what it said. he asks me, "and you think you did the right thing by going ahead?" well, YES. i went by what i was told from his office! his next question, "how do you calculate how much tape to use on your joints? you see, i'm from the old school too (he's and old retired EC) and i realize that soldering is a more reliable connection, but what have you got against scotch-locks?" well, he answered his own question right there; more reliable. what else needs to be said? as far as the insulation goes, i explained about the thickness of the tape, the stretch percentage and how to calculate it using the NEC insulation tables. he sounded like he had no clue what i was talking about. now, the inspector says he wants me to meet him on the job and we'll have to untape a few random joints to prove i did what i said. "that's no problem sir, just tell me what time." well, he tells me that he can't do it that day, and that he'll be out of town next week, so it will be the week after next. i asked, "you're telling me that because you will be out-of-town, this whole job shuts down for a week and i don't get paid?" his reply, "yes sir." BS.

my next phone call was to the GA dept. of community affairs, who are really helpful in situations like these. in GA, a jurisdiction cannot enforce any code change w/o going through the DCA. I got the investigator on the phone, and he verified that this city has never even applied for a code change. in sept. '06, they inquired as to what the procedure for this was. the DCA wrote a response and never heard from them again. legally, this city has no right to enforce anything but the '05 NEC. from the state's point of view, i've done nothing wrong and my job should pass.

i then called the BO. no answer. i leave an urgent message and he calls me back a couple of hours later. i told him the situation. i explained that having an inspector hold up my job because he was out-of-town was not acceptable, and that i want someone there either that same day, or this monday. the BO tells me there's nothing he can do. I then tell him about my phone call to the state, and that how nothing they are trying to enforce is legal. the BO tells me, "well, this city has the right to enforce whatever it wants to, sir." "no sir," i tell him, "there is a procedure to follow and your office has not done so." i also cited the state law that requires any code amendments be posted in plain view at the permit issuing office. he tells me, "well, we communicate w/ our contractors by word-of-mouth." did you catch the key word there, 'our contractors'?? They're definitely running protection here. I'm doing my best to control my temper, and politely let him know the state has been contacted and that i'm at the legal advantage. He sticks to his guns though. We finish the call.

The BO calls me back an hour later and said, "The electrical inspector and myself will meet you on the job at 9AM monday morning." During the hours that have passed the superintendent has called me repeatedly expressing dissatisfaction. Finally, a straw breaks. I'm not rude at all, but firmly explain my position and that i've done everything i know to do. The superintendent then tells me, "hey, i'm not upset w/ you. But you've got to understand that I'm the one who has to report to the GC, and you don't have to take what i do." he's got a good point. and i hate it for him that its worked out this way. I've met the GC once and he looks like a guy that means business. He's steered his company to the top in this town and has a reputation of excellence. They work with precision I haven't seen before. Was i ready for this kind of work? I'm questioning myself now. I'm 24 years old. I've been doing electrical for 9 years now, but do i really know how to handle my business? Should i be a person who is responsible for other peoples money, livelihood, and reputation? Man, this is eating me to the core. I'm so frustrated I can hardly work. I'm so sincerely sorry for what i think the superintendent is having to deal with. We talk again at the end of the day, and he's got the GC, the bossman, on the phone in the background. He's relaying messages between the two of us. I explain everything that is going on, and how I think my job meets every code requirement imaginable. I tell him about the phone calls to the state, and what the laws are, and what I think will happen. The superintendent says they are somewhat pleased that this has happened, because the inspections dept. has gone completely overboard with their enforcements. I'm surprised people have put up with it this long and said nothing. The GC is hoping maybe this will straighten them out. He says, "lets kick butt on monday." I'm actually smiling now.

I've printed out the city's electrical code, the state laws, the code excerpts; everything i think i'll need come monday. I'm prepared. I know what I'm going to say and how to say it. I will not lay down for them. For once, someone will not tolerate their abuse and misuse of authority. They have no option but to accept what is fact, and I will continue to work strictly by the NEC.

I'm afraid though the end result of this will be that I can probably no longer work in this town. I'm going to be blackballed and so closely examined during inspections. They will find something to turn me down on every time, i'm sure of it. I hate to let someone run me off, but i'm not out looking for a fight. I'm just out to do what i think is the right thing. I'm hopeful though that this will provide some sort of relief for the contractors who are working in this town, and show them they don't have to be bullied. I hope they will question from now on everything the inspectors try to shove down their throats. I really hope SOMEONE benefits. I'm thinking about taking out a full page newspaper ad, just to let the contractors know that nothing they have been told is correct. I hope that maybe, just maybe, i can work here again, and the BO, the inspector, and myself can all get along. I hope they will respect me as someone who knows damn well what i'm doing, and someone who knows his facts. I hope.

Sorry this was so long. I just had to get it out there.
 
Well I say good for you!

You may be surprised. Instead of being blackballed or harassed, you might actually find different results.

Just try to keep your cool. Try to not raise your voice, state the facts, just like you're doing here. Keep a level head, and don't forget to come back and tell us how it went.
 
I had originally placed this thread out of sight. I was not sure it fit the forum. After talking with the other moderators I have put it back out in the open.

brantmacga, I apologize for the delay.

Bob
 
Brant, welcome to the business. You've got my support, and I believe you're doing the right thing.

Hang in there! :)
 
I'm not an EC, but I have seen what happens when ECs wander from their home to new areas seeking work. An EC I know ventured into Wyoming to continue working for a GC they'd done business with in familiar areas. After getting beat around a bit in Cheyenne and then things finally falling into place, they figured they'd make some money doing work in Casper.

That went bad really quick. As the story goes, the local AHJ and POCO were similarly unclear about their requirements/amendments/pet peeves, and the EC did not take extra trips into account when things didn't go quite right. After getting knocked around a bit, the EC finally tapped out and let the contract go.

Last I heard, the same EC was considering going clear to Rock Springs WY for a predicted tract-housing boom, I just shook my head.

Sometimes, I think it can be more profitable to stay home (and less annoyance to the employees), but I am not an EC, and am blissfully unaware of the many details that lead into the decision. I'd have to be close to starving to consider making the logistics of such a remote project happen.

Don't get me wrong, Mac - I completely sympathize with your situation, and am interested to see how things work out in the long run. I'm curious how many other ECs have run into the same problems trying to travel.
 
Brant, I too have been in the same position before in other towns, and my own.... Unenforcable nonexistant codes published in deep space or nowhere at all. It eventually works out. The thing is that these people have had local contractors bending to thier whim for too long and don't want to rock the boat. My suggestion may sound contradictory, but what you're dealing with is power and politics of a small town... I suggest you stick to your guns on all the code and legal stuff, but keep your temper in the truck... Act as professionally as you possibly can, and if at all possible try to deal with it privately between yourself and that town - it allows them to save face politicaly, and that can save you a lot of hassle down the line.
 
OK as you can see I did some real cleaning up.

I removed the discussion on tape and solder joints.

I removed the discussion on wire nut twisting.

I removed the bickering about poor posts.

What I have left where the comments that directly related to the opening posters situation.

If anyone feels the need to continue a discussion about splicing please feel free to open a new thread.

Bob
 
guys i just finished working two 80 hr workweeks, so this is the first time i've been on since i posted this message. anyway, i met w/ the BO, the elec. inspector, GC, and superintendent. the inspector was actually a pretty nice guy, and had a lot of compliments about my work, and said he was very surprised to see it coming from a 24 yr old guy. anyhow, i had about 30 pages of code, state law, and amendments rules to show them; thats when it got loud and nasty. the BO informed me that he was "the law" and would decide what to enforce. i stayed calm and never raised my tone; i let him be the idiot. in the end, the elec. inspector and i reached a compromise. i will put refrigerators on 20A circuits and he will leave me alone. after a discussion across the street between the GC and the BO, the BO came back and apologized for the way he acted. i don't know what was said between them or if it even related to our circumstance, but that's what happened. so as of right now, i'm still slated to finish the houses i bid on, and i hope i'll make some new friends there. i really want to let some of the other EC's know what's going on to save them headache and $$$, but i'm not sure how it will affect my current standing with the insp. dept. do i let the other EC's continue to be shoved around and say its their own fault, or should i step in and help them out? what would you do?
 
brantmacga said:
do i let the other EC's continue to be shoved around and say its their own fault, or should i step in and help them out? what would you do?
Click to expand...

I would answer this with a question.

What is your line of business, and what do you get paid for?

If you want to be altruistic, then OK.
 
right on. i should just let them be. i've got my end straight and that's most important. it still bothers me though; i'll leave it alone.
 
as with any type of migration, you should first send out a investigative party to determine if the new local is worth the trip. just like moving your home.
 
The day after I graduated High School I jumped on a plane headed for of all places - Puerto Rico. I spoke no spanish, had virtually no real money, but I had heard the surf was nice. I had a wonderful year there. I did a similar untested trip to Hawaii 2 years later, with a grand sum of $500 bucks, a surfboard, 2 pairs of jeans, workboots, an apprentice toolkit, a diploma from tradeschool. That was just about 30 years ago. Sometimes ya just got to go for it...
 
brantmacga said:
right on. i should just let them be. i've got my end straight and that's most important. it still bothers me though; i'll leave it alone.
Click to expand...
If the other EC's do not have the testicular fortitude to #1 know what code is.#2 know what the laws/local requirements are and last stand up for them self it is their own fault. As a bumper sticker I saw one time said "always question authority"
 
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