kWh meter for subpanel?

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jeff43222

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Minneapolis, Minnesota
I just got a call from a guy who owns a side-by-side duplex with an upstairs unit, for a total of three separate dwellings. The building has two services, so one unit of the side-by-side and the upstairs unit are on one meter. The upstairs unit's OCP is a subpanel running off the downstairs unit's main panelboard.

He wanted to know if there is a way to put a meter into the system that would be able to show the kWh consumption of the subpanel. I told him I've never dealt with such a device, but I'd put out the word to the experts on this board and see what you all know.
 
Re: kWh meter for subpanel?

By the way this guy better subtract the KWH from one tenant equal to what he charges the other.

Double 'selling' electricity is frowned on.
 
Re: kWh meter for subpanel?

I installed an Emon recently for a very similar situation. The most basic model costs around $400.
 
Re: kWh meter for subpanel?

Another issue that comes to mind is the legality of the apartment. Utilities will not provide a meter for an illegal apartment.

Usually, the landlord will pay the whole electric bill to hide the fact that there are illegal apartments in the building. If it gets out of control, a sub meter such as the Emon gets installed. :roll:
 
Re: kWh meter for subpanel?

The deal is that two tenants are getting one electrical bill that doesn't distinguish who used how much. Previously it wasn't an issue because he had long-time tenants whose usages were pretty consistent, and they just split it up in a way they thought was fair.

But now he's got new tenants with new usages, so he wants to put the meter on the subpanel so they'll know how to split the bill.

The link to Emon is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the info!
 
Re: kWh meter for subpanel?

I may be sticking my foot in my mouth, but, doesn't the Emon Meters already have meters in them? The local Utility company dosn't base their billing on a Watt-hour house meter, do they? I've used similar products for some medical lease build-outs that have watt-hour meters installed on the line-side of their large medical equipment like MRI & Cat Scanners. Doesn't the same idea apply here because the Owner already has a Base Meter...he just trying to show fair billing to each tenant.

Think I just developed Hoof N Mouth there...
 
Re: kWh meter for subpanel?

In my area, every city requires each apartment to have its own meter with an additional one for the common areas (The land lord pays this one). The only exception I ever seen on it was a small loft type apartment where a panel was installed in the apartment, but fed from the main panel and electric was included with the monthly rent fee, no additional charges.

My guess is that this apartment is not up to code and the land lord was to keep this place on the down low. Many cities in my area require full inspections on rentals and any code violations fixed at the time of occupancy.
 
Re: kWh meter for subpanel?

When I lived in Orlando while going to college, I lived in an above garage "apartment" behind the main house. I guess it was used as a servants quarters back when they were built in the 1920's. Both my electric and water charges were based on a percentage of the total used between the apartment and the house. Neither bill was ever that much so I never complained. I was quite suprised that the Orlando Co-Op allowed this. I would receive my own bill that showed the total use for both buildings and then the amount I was expected to pay of the total. It never occured to me that if the house tenant didn't pay their part, the power to both of us would be turned off. Fortunately that never happened.

People also found it very interesting when I gave them my address. It was 812? East Harwood Street.
 
Re: kWh meter for subpanel?

Apparently the deal is that the second unit being fed from the first is not considered a legal apartment by the city. I called the electrical inspector this morning and asked if adding a meter to the subpanel would require a permit, and he said it definitely would. The landlord isn't all that interested in having a city inspector of any sort coming into the place, for obvious reasons. He just wanted to find a way to let the two new tenants equitably divide the one bill that comes to both of them.

Around here the city is pretty strict about requirements for multi-unit dwellings. My neighbor lives in a duplex where he rents the other unit to his sister, and he told me all about all the hoops he had to jump through to make it legal. He's also not allowed to pull a homeowner's permit for any work on either unit; everything must be done by a licensed contractor. I, however, can pull a homeowner's permit for *anything* on my house except gas furnaces.
 
Re: kWh meter for subpanel?

contractors must be careful when dealing with meters. there can be a large liability here. first, the meter must be anci-2c rated for accuracy to allow any one to charge money for power consumption. each state's public utilities has their own rules and regulations.

i read a story about a contractor in texas who got two tenant's meters swapped. this was a large office building with two tenants on the same floor. the management group billed the tenant monthly for years. when one tenant moved out he still got billed for the other tenants power which brought up a question of the mistake. the tenant took it to court and the court ruled that it was the management's responibility to install and maintain the accuracy of the meter --- they had to return "both" tenant's power charges that went back years---and of course they sued the electrical contractor for a large piece of the pie!!!
 
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