L .E. D. pool lights trip G.F.C.I.

[marc deschenes]

I just wired two Hayward # spo523(s)LED 120 volt lights per the instructions that they came with . They are on a 1p 20amp seimens GFCI breaker, they consume 50 watts each.They work great seperately but when they are both connected they trip the GFCI.They are controlled by a wall switch and they also can be synchronized to show the same color at the same time .This is done by switching them on off, on off up to 12 different programs . Has anyone out there had any trouble with these lights ?

I tried a different breaker,changed the switch and some , not all, of the conductors involved.

Any help would be greatly appreciated the home owner... well lets just say he wants them to work .

 

[benaround]

Re: L .E. D. pool lights trip G.F.C.I.

Marc,

Why the GFIC,are these for a swimming pool?

Are the supply wires on the led fixture(s) The normal black/white/grd. type of setup?

Basicly, If they work fine seperatly then you know the led's are alright,so to help from where i'm sitting,need info from switch location to fixture.OK,did you run 1 white wire and 1 switch leg and 1 green from the sw. to the lights?

 

[jwelectric]

Re: L .E. D. pool lights trip G.F.C.I.

What kind of niche do these fixtures use?
Are they approved for this type of installation?

680.23 (F)
(2) Equipment Grounding. Through-wall lighting assemblies, wet-niche, dry-niche, or no-niche luminaires (lighting fixtures) shall be connected to an insulated copper equipment grounding conductor installed with the circuit conductors. The equipment grounding conductor shall be installed without joint or splice except as permitted in (F)(2)(a) and (F)(2)(b). The equipment grounding conductor shall be sized in accordance with Table 250.122 but shall not be smaller than 12 AWG.

(a) If more than one underwater luminaire (lighting fixture) is supplied by the same branch circuit, the equipment grounding conductor, installed between the junction boxes, transformer enclosures, or other enclosures in the supply circuit to wet-niche luminaires (fixtures), or between the field-wiring compartments of dry-niche luminaires (fixtures), shall be permitted to be terminated on grounding terminals.
(b) If the underwater luminaire (lighting fixture) is supplied from a transformer, ground-fault circuit interrupter, clock-operated switch, or a manual snap switch that is located between the panelboard and a junction box connected to the conduit that extends directly to the underwater luminaire (lighting fixture), the equipment grounding conductor shall be permitted to terminate on grounding terminals on the transformer, ground-fault circuit interrupter, clock-operated switch enclosure, or an outlet box used to enclose a snap switch.

 

[hey_poolboy]

Re: L .E. D. pool lights trip G.F.C.I.

If they're Hayward then they are indeed acceptable for pool use. To top it off they are most likely UL listed too.
Last I knew Hayward was the largest pool equipment manufacturer in the country as well.

If they both work independently I would try a different brand of breaker. Use a standard Seimens to feed a different brand,(in a seperate enclosure) I have had difficulty with siemens GFCI's in the past.

[ August 12, 2005, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: hey_poolboy ]

 

[marc deschenes]

Re: L .E. D. pool lights trip G.F.C.I.

Thanks for responding,

Yes they are pool lights, yes they are ul approved,yes they are on one circuit with one load conductor from the wall switch. The installation is code compliant in every way . It is also per the instructions that came with the lights.

I talked to the folks at Hayward and they also said that I should try a different manufacturer of breakers , he also said that I could run two individual branch circuits to a two pole switch and that might work, (not sure this is compliant?)in effect one circuit for each light . My concern there from an electrician's stand point is , no one would expect the pool lights to be wired through a 2 pole switch from two individual branch circuits,a service man will see a breaker marked pool light shut it off and possibly get killed by the second circuit .I would think the handles would need to be tied together or a 2pole GFCI be employed in which case I think it would still trip.
While the home owner wants pool lights , he does not want them at any cost . They are wired according to the requirements of both the N.E.C. and the manufacturer.... I think Mr. Hayward will be sending someone out .

P.S. I was told these lights cost this guy 500.00 each,... they should work with any listed , labeled u.l. approved G.F.C.I. circuit breaker on the market, or state in the instructions can only be used with xyz circuit breakers .
Thanks again
Marc.

 

[hey_poolboy]

Re: L .E. D. pool lights trip G.F.C.I.

If he only paid 500 he got a good deal. Some places are much more proud of the synchronized LED lights.

It does not surprise me that they recommended a different breaker. I remember one manufacturer in particular that would ask what brand the breaker was if a new piece of equipment was tripping the ground fault. They refused to perform or pay for warranty work until I changed the breaker from Seimens to something else. I switched it out and it has not tripped since.

Don't ask why, I couldn't tell ya!

 

[mdshunk]

Re: L .E. D. pool lights trip G.F.C.I.

Marc, I don't know if you used a switch loop or powered to the switch first. I've noticed sometimes that adding a switch loop to a GFCI protected circuit can provide that extra milliamp of imbalance that breaks the camel's back and trips the GFCI. Little leakages add up the more crap you add on a GFCI circuit. Doesn't take long to get to 6ma.

 

[marc deschenes]

Re: L .E. D. pool lights trip G.F.C.I.

HI folks,
The power leaves the panel hits a switch and then to lights. They are the only conductors in the pipe . I talked to the homeowner , he does not want to spend more money trying to problem solve for Hayward ( neither do I ), nor does he accept the "it's the brand" of circuit breaker argument. He also has 3 kids who swim in this pool and no one can tell him why the 120 volt pool lights ,submerged in the pool , are tripping the G.F.C.I. Hayward seems sure it is nothing though. ,then again his kids don't use the pool.

As for my concern it is one of liability , I will not ,regardless of what Hayward says , do anything to void the U.L's. approval , They are installed according to the instructions , I think even the instructions are part of the approval process for U.L. ,are they not ?

They are sending a tech. out on Tuesday , I'll let you know how it plays out . Thanks again.

Can anyone tell me if it is a violation to run two individual circuits protected by GFCI's , to a two a two pole switch ? I looked but could not see where it is prohibited. My gut tells me it must be.

[ August 15, 2005, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: marc deschenes ]