Lack of Knowledge

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Little Bill

Little Bill

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Tennessee NEC:2017
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Semi-Retired Electrician
I was looking at a proposed panel change from fuses to breakers. The customer has a "handyman" working there and he told me he knew all about the electrical if I had any questions. He then proceeded to tell me that he had grounded all of the non-grounded receptacles. I asked him exactly what he meant and what he did. He told me that the NM was just a 2-wire and he grounded them. I asked him what he did. He told me that he got those green pigtails for grounding and screwed them to the back of the boxes and then to the new 3-prong receptacles that he installed. I asked him if he ran a EGC (grounding conductor) to the boxes. He said no but the boxes were now grounded.:unsure:
I tried to explain to him that unless a ground wire was run to the box that it was not grounded. He then told me that a "good family friend" that was an electrician taught him to do this. I asked if maybe he missed part of the instructions about needing the ground wire from the panel or another grounded outlet. I don't think I got through to him!
I'm not even sure if the boxes are even metal as I didn't look at them.

If I get the job, I'm just going to tell the HO about the falsely grounded receptacles and let them decide what to do. I'll just change the panel and if they want me to correct this I will. Otherwise I'll just do the panel and be done with it.
 
Little Bill said:
I was looking at a proposed panel change from fuses to breakers. The customer has a "handyman" working there and he told me he knew all about the electrical if I had any questions. He then proceeded to tell me that he had grounded all of the non-grounded receptacles. I asked him exactly what he meant and what he did. He told me that the NM was just a 2-wire and he grounded them. I asked him what he did. He told me that he got those green pigtails for grounding and screwed them to the back of the boxes and then to the new 3-prong receptacles that he installed. I asked him if he ran a EGC (grounding conductor) to the boxes. He said no but the boxes were now grounded.:unsure:
I tried to explain to him that unless a ground wire was run to the box that it was not grounded. He then told me that a "good family friend" that was an electrician taught him to do this. I asked if maybe he missed part of the instructions about needing the ground wire from the panel or another grounded outlet. I don't think I got through to him!
I'm not even sure if the boxes are even metal as I didn't look at them.

If I get the job, I'm just going to tell the HO about the falsely grounded receptacles and let them decide what to do. I'll just change the panel and if they want me to correct this I will. Otherwise I'll just do the panel and be done with it.
Click to expand...
So....
if their handyman ”fixed” everything and knew everything, why isn’t he doing the panel change?
 
Still would need to put it on ground fault breakers since it’s two wire, unless it was wired in ac. Have seen houses wired in ac, but not many. Apparently in the 60’s, the City of Atlanta must have required it. The only place in the south I’ve run across it. Don’t know where your at, might be common.
 
Hv&Lv said:
So....
if their handyman ”fixed” everything and knew everything, why isn’t he doing the panel change?
Click to expand...
That was my first question (that I didn't ask). He sounded like he was trying to impress the HO and me, but he failed miserably with me anyway!
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Maybe there are metal boxes fed with the newer ac cable
Click to expand...
hillbilly1 said:
Still would need to put it on ground fault breakers since it’s two wire, unless it was wired in ac. Have seen houses wired in ac, but not many. Apparently in the 60’s, the City of Atlanta must have required it. The only place in the south I’ve run across it. Don’t know where your at, might be common.
Click to expand...
No AC, I did see the NM when I took the cover off the fuse panel. Very few EGCs in there so I know most of it is ungrounded.
 
Little Bill said:
That was my first question (that I didn't ask). He sounded like he was trying to impress the HO and me, but he failed miserably with me anyway!
Click to expand...
What’s going to be interesting is when you give your price.
what you want to bet the handyman tells HO he can do it cheaper and save them a little money..
Starting with no inspection..
 
Little Bill said:
If I get the job, I'm just going to tell the HO about the falsely grounded receptacles and let them decide what to do. I'll just change the panel and if they want me to correct this I will. Otherwise I'll just do the panel and be done with it.
Click to expand...
Personally, I'd inform the HO about the violations and hazards created by their "handyman" and insist on correcting these as part of the job. If they refuse, I would walk away: I wouldn't want the liability. Because you know that, as the licensed electrician that touched their system, you'll be the one who gets blamed/sued if someone gets injured or killed.
 
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