ladder logic software

[mjmike]

We have a Client that has an industrial facility with several pieces of equipment operating off various PLCs. The facility operator had an outside contractor that would edit their ladder logic and upload for the different pieces of equipment as needed. That specific contactor is no longer in business but has turned over the ladder logic programs to our Client. They have asked us if we could start taking over the various programming of the logic for them. Although I do know ladder logic, what I don't know is what software to use to for such a task (such as RSlogics, studio 5000, etc...). Is there one software program that can be used for all or is it specific to a particular PLC? What software would be recommended?

 

[tom baker]

Perhaps more details, how many PLCs, how critical is the process, do they require 24 hour support?
But, if you have to ask about what software to use, this is something you should pass on. Each PLC brand has its own software, and even different versions of the software. And the the software is expensive to buy. It will be a very steep learning curve, do you have adequate other work to cover your expenses while getting set up?

 

[Krusscher]

Have to agree with Tom here. I was pretty good with programming GE PLC's but I worked at a place with AB and it was like I had to learn all over again. Depending on what they have you probably need 3 or 4 different programs to work on AB PLC's cause they like to make everything difficult unfortunately.
You probably want to take a few basic AB classes before you take this on but in the end it might not be worth it and you could do more damage then good if this isn't something you do often.

 

[mjmike]

Thanks for the info. I suspected there might be different software needed for the different PLCs. Assuming we want to make the software investment (which I doubt), do manufacturer's offer training on their software?

 

[Krusscher]

I think it might depend on where you are at. I think AB is big enough that there should be some sort of training through a distributor near you if contact them. The reason you need so many different programs for AB is because they made a new program for every generation of CPU it seems and their HDMIs have there own software as well along with the networking. GE was nice cause it only had the PLC and HDMI software that was all you needed to program any one of there PLC's

 

[Krusscher]

You can check with a local college as well. The community college I work at has PLC classes that are all done on AB platforms.

 

[petersonra]

The cost of the software is nothing by comparison to the cost of learning to use it. It is not something you will be real effective at just by taking a few weeks of classes.

Likely there is some system integrator in the area that would be a better option for taking on this task.

By the way, most of the ab classes are about $1100 per day.

 

[Jraef]

Every brand of PLC will have its own software, there is no “universal” package that crosses platforms. So if they have multiple brands, managing that is going to be a challenge. You can get training on one and that may HELP in understanding another, but there will be differences. Being that Rockwell (A-B) is dominant in North America with over 58% market share for controllers, if you have to invest in training, I would go that route.

RS Logix 5000 software was just the old name for what is now Studio 5000, if you get new Studio 5000 package it is generally backward compatible to older versions to program any CompactLogix or ConttolLogix PLC. The “studio” aspect is that it now includes the software for programming other things like VFDs and HMIs. Every Rockwell distributor is required by contract to provide training services to clients, so contact your local distributor to get their schedule. But small PLCs like the MicroLogix and Micro800 require a different program, which is available for free now (depending on the version). The old MicroLogix small PLCs require RS500, the newer Micro800s require Connected Components Workbench software.

Ps: If they still have old PLC 5 systems, they need a version of the old software that will be compatible, but they really should be replacing that as they are now obsolete.

 

[mjmike]

Thanks for all the help. I will be meeting with the Client here soon and look at what all PLCs they have. Will touch back once I obtained that info.

 

[nascaraddict20]

The only thing l ever worked with is RS LOGIX, SLC 500 PLC stuff. What little bit l did.

 

[petersonra]

Ps: If they still have old PLC 5 systems, they need a version of the old software that will be compatible, but they really should be replacing that as they are now obsolete.

AB is really putting the screws to plc5 users. Rslogix5 is no longer included in the integration tool kit so if you want integrator help the integrator will have to buy a separate license. We bought a license because we do enough PLC 5 work to make it worthwhile but it is not going to be real long before we probably won't be able to justify it.

Incidentally we have a customer who is having to pay exor a crap load of money to develop a driver for some hardware because they decided to drop support for that hardware in the latest version of their HMI.

Support for a lot of this legacy stuff is going to go by the wayside in the not real distant future and people who don't do something about it now are in for a real shock.

I think Siemens is about to dump all or most support for the s7-200 line. They are pushing programs to convert to s7.

 

[jim dungar]

Support for a lot of this legacy stuff is going to go by the wayside in the not real distant future and people who don't do something about it now are in for a real shock.

This is at least the third time this has been warned about, since I sold my first ladder logic controller stuff back in 1980. The world has not ended once during that time, nor has management learned their lesson about not performing upgrades.

 

[petersonra]

This is at least the third time this has been warned about, since I sold my first ladder logic controller stuff back in 1980. The world has not ended once during that time, nor has management learned their lesson about not performing upgrades.

Some stuff is better supported than others but anything more than twenty years old is due for a serious look at possible updates.

We have people call us pretty regular who have plcs and hmis I never even heard of. Or that call us when they die and want to have us fix them but have no backup.

People have even bought machines at the scrap yard and wanted to get them running again but the PLC ur HMI is dead or missing.

I have had to reverse engineer several machines PLC programs that had no backup, no electrical drawings, no manuals, etc.

 

[tom baker]

Where I worked we had a line item budget item every year for SCADA lifecycle extension. The SLC 505 that was the first with Ethernet in 1990 is now obsolete

 

[petersonra]

Where I worked we had a line item budget item every year for SCADA lifecycle extension. The SLC 505 that was the first with Ethernet in 1990 is now obsolete

The only slc left is the 1400 and an is threatening to obsolete it. They want people to migrate to the micro800. I personally dislike the micro800, pretty intensely.

 

[ptonsparky]

Micro 800

 

[tom baker]

The only slc left is the 1400 and an is threatening to obsolete it. They want people to migrate to the micro800. I personally dislike the micro800, pretty intensely.

I liked the ML500 as it had Ethernet. Used a lot in pumping plant panels

 

[petersonra]

I liked the ML500 as it had Ethernet. Used a lot in pumping plant panels

I don't know what a ml500 is. The 1400 has Ethernet.

 

[ptonsparky]

I used ML1000, 1500 & 1400. 1400 were my favorite.

 

[petersonra]

I used ML1000, 1500 & 1400. 1400 were my favorite.

I did not like the 1000 or 1500 because they did not support online programming. I think it was the 1500 that supported devicenet so that was another strike against it.

The 1100 and 1400 are basically the same thing except the 1400 has more builtin I/o. They were great little plcs.