last 2008 question for the night

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ryan_618

ryan_618

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Salt Lake City, Utah
There is a new wiring method that can be directly applies to a wall and then painted over. It is a sort of "ribbon" with conductors in it. What code section addresses its use?
 
Article 382 Nonmetallic Extensions
The Art has been rewritten to include this new wiring method.
When I was at last years Eastern Section meeting, the manufacturer had this product on display.


I cannot wait to see this in display at Home Depot or other big box stores. This is going to be very interesting.
There is a website for this company with installation instructions provided.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
I cannot wait to see this in display at Home Depot or other big box stores. This is going to be very interesting.
There is a website for this company with installation instructions provided.
Click to expand...



Revision: Article 382 Nonmetallic Extensions
Article 382 has been revised to incorporate provisions for concealed flat nonmetallic extensions. A new definition of this type of concealable flat nonmetallic extension has been added in 382.2. The article has been expanded to include specific product listing requirements in 382.6. Sections 382.10 and 382.12, covering Uses Permitted and Uses Not Permitted, have been revised and expanded to incorporate requirements and restrictions for concealable flat nonmetallic extensions. A new Part III has been added to Article 382 and provides specific construction specifications for concealable flat nonmetallic extensions. New technologies, consumer electronics devices such as flat panel televisions and custom audio systems, along with ever-changing lifestyles have increased the need for additional power outlets and the desire to place power or lighting outlets where needed to obtain functionality as well as an aesthetically pleasing environment. Often these changes are poorly accommodated through the use of extension cords that are easily damaged, misused and can lead to electrical hazards. This new type of concealable flat nonmetallic extension incorporated into Article 382 provides a safe and reliable alternative for existing occupancies that can reduce the misuse of extension cords, overload power taps, and so forth (see figure 7).
Click to expand...

Analysis of Changes, NEC-2008, Part II


Figure 7 (from above):
johnston_fig7.gif






Coupled with AFCI's...what's the worry?
alfred_e_neuman.jpg
 
As I recall, and I may be wrong, that this product does not require a grounded metal piece on top of the conductors as does under carpet cable. We will have a lot of energized picture hangers...they problably only approved this so that next cycle they can require AFCI/GFCI devices on every circuit.:wink:
Don
 
I see that I am incorrect...the grounded conductor somehow encloses the ungrounded conductor, and then the grounding conductor is to cover all of it...at least that is what it looks like in 382.104 in the draft copy of the code.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I see that I am incorrect...the grounded conductor somehow encloses the ungrounded conductor, and then the grounding conductor is to cover all of it...at least that is what it looks like in 382.104 in the draft copy of the code.
Don
Click to expand...

Don, that is correct. The EGC is the outermost ribbon, then the grounded conductor, then the ungrounded conductor is "sandwiched" in the middle. It also has GFCI, GFPE and other stuff in the power supply. I don't think it is a very hazardous wiring method, but I think it will be damaged easily and then have to be replaced.
 
Pierre:
Who is the manufacturer?
This is an interesting product, its designed to be damaged.
Instead of protecting from physical damage, we allow for damage.
 
How the h....

How the h....

The code is continually getting more restrictive and then they allow something like this. I think it is evidence that the NEC is owned by big manufacturers and they simply get their product pushed through in order to increase profits. With the 2008 changes to tamper resistant outlets, additional AFCI protection... and then this stuff! What exactly happens when you drive that nail through it???


INSANE I SAY... Oh, not me...
 
Is FlatWire Ready safer than traditional round wire?
Yes. The flat design makes FlatWire Ready inherently safer than round wire because the conductors are spread out over a larger, flatter area and are not wrapped around each other. This design is less likely to create a shock situation because it is harder to make contact with more than one wire at a time. The flat, wide design also allows for greater heat dissipation over a large surface area.

*cough* Snakeoil *cough*

One would think that any application with voltage high enough to injure would not benefit from their perception of safety. Making contact with a single conductor is inherently more dangerous to John Q Public than contact with multiple conductors. In all likelihood one or more of the conductors would be grounded and cause an OCP trip, rather than a ground fault through the victim contacting a single hot conductor. Don't even get me started on the fallacy of their Voice/Data/Video applications. The only feasible applications I see are LV lighting and speakers.
 
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yes, the undercarpet wire is still made. We have been doing some govt. work where this crap is all they use so they can relocate modular offices easily. I believe its only listed for use in office space and on concrete floors. Here's a link http://www.ampnetconnect.com/product_groups.asp?grp_id=130 We just did some offices for a bunch of spooks, and in pulling up the old wiring we found many places where the conductors had pretty much fried the insulation but apparently not enough to short the circuit (the installation calls for a thin metal shield between the conductors and the carpet above, so it is presumed to be safe. I really haven't decided which is worse - the undercarpet wiring which I feel is inherently hazardous, or power poles where each contractor that comes thru to rewire leaves a new mess of cables and boxes (hot or not) laying all over the ceiling (sometimes on the tiles without support).
 
Years ago I had a customer that had this stuff, I did not care for it, put it did work for their application, never really found any connection problems in the 3-4 years I did work at this facility.
 
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