Last time I do work for "little old ladies"

[Strife]

Well, this is part venting, part question.
Last week I installed 3 security lights for a "little old lady" (literally). Where was my brain? I don't know, but I give her a break(read just enough to cover my gas and materials). That was the original idea.
Next day she calls me that one of the lights stay on all night. I go there the following day, play an hr with the light, decide to change it. I go pick another one, install the new one, tape the photocell, spend another hr playing with it (range, sensitivity, etc). I put the range at half and the timer at one minute. I test it 4 times, goes off in one minute. I put the sensor down 30 degrees from the ground(so range should be even less)
Guess what? Today she called me again claiming the light stays on all night.
Before I go there at night and spend 2-3 hrs watching that light, does anyone have any insight into this? I have a feeling 90% is her perception, but maybe some of you have more experience with this?

 

[charlie b]

Over the last couple nights, the moon was nearly full. How were the skies in your neck of the woods? A bit clear, perhaps, so that the full moon was shining into her bedroom?

 

[jim dungar]

Maybe she is putting the sensor into manual mode. This usually happens if the switch is turned off and then turned back on within a few seconds.
I can imagine her 'flicking' the switch to see if actually works.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have had customers say the same thing. Usually it is because they leave the light switch on and then they turn it off and on again. That is bypass mode and the light stays on until you shut it off for a minute or so.

 

[dhalleron]

I hate these kinds of lights. The last one I worked on just needed bulbs changed and I didn't have the instructions. I changed the bulbs in the daytime.

After I changed the bulbs I got called back because they stay on all night. Turns out I forgot some kinds of these lights can be forced to stay on by turning the switch on and off rapidly or something like the other guys just posted. After playing around with it at night I got it to go off and only come on at night if there was movement.

 

[growler]

Well, this is part venting, part question.
Last week I installed 3 security lights for a "little old lady" (literally). Where was my brain? I don't know, but I give her a break(read just enough to cover my gas and materials). That was the original idea.
Next day she calls me that one of the lights stay on all night. I go there the following day, play an hr with the light, decide to change it. I go pick another one, install the new one, tape the photocell, spend another hr playing with it (range, sensitivity, etc). I put the range at half and the timer at one minute. I test it 4 times, goes off in one minute. I put the sensor down 30 degrees from the ground(so range should be even less)
Guess what? Today she called me again claiming the light stays on all night.
Before I go there at night and spend 2-3 hrs watching that light, does anyone have any insight into this? I have a feeling 90% is her perception, but maybe some of you have more experience with this?

Shouldn't you fiigure out what is wrong before automatically thinking it's because the work is done for a little old lady. She may be right and the light may be staying on all night.

Are these the type of sensors that can be controlled with a switch to turn them on for longer peroids ( rest of cycle). If this circuit is switched she may be playing with the switch.

You may have to go by at night just to check. PS : If the switch turned them on ( over ride ) they should only stay on for one night.

 

[Joethemechanic]

It has been my experience that little old ladies are absolutely convinced that lighting and especially floods or spots consume huge amounts of energy. If a cat or dog walks past and the security lights go on, they will fiddle with the switch and lock the darn things on. I think it's a result of being depression era kids.

 

[rt66electric]

Customer provide material

Customer provide material

I to have spent way to much time on similar situations.

I try to have have the customer supply ceiling fans and motion lights. If they do not work properly then it is their resposibility. Except for L-O-L little-ole-ladies; I also state up front that motion light adjuments are up to them, and leave the instructions. With the cost of time and materials most people choose to adjust themselves, or, live with it.
DENNIS

 

[svh19044]

I have stopped using EVERY motion light except for the Rab stealth series. In my experience, it's not just perception and an actual problem (usually with crappy motion sensors), though it is easier to write some customers off as crazy.

With even a full moon, bright sky, etc, they can reflect and cause a lot of the motions to turn on. Also, if the bulb is too close to the sensor, it will cause malfunctions. You can either aim them farther away from the sensor (tip, use the width of your hand), or you can use the shields. Most of the new Rab stealth "kits" come with the shields for par bulbs.

It also helps to leave a piece of painters tape under the switch explaining the function in big letters, if she is playing with the switch.

 

[ceb58]

No good deed goes unpunished and use Rab stealth lighting.

 

[jaylectricity]

I hate to say it, but it's not the little old lady that's the problem. The problem is you gave her a break, and now that it isn't going well you just want to be able to say, "Well, I gave you a deal and all this additional hassle isn't worth my time."

I've had it happen to me. And I'd like to say, "Well, I didn't really charge you enough to do this job," to which they're likely to say, "Well if I had known you weren't going to do a good job I wouldn't have agreed to let you do it."

You're stuck, it was your mistake. Just get it working and move on.

 

[readydave8]

Bad as I hate to install materials furnished by customer, motion lites are an exception. After bitter experience, here's what I do now:

When the subject of motion lites comes up, I look worried and ask, have you had motion lites before? How reliably did they work? This often leads the conversation down a track that results in no motion lites after all.

If they still want motion lites, I say that all I can do is put power to them. If they stay on, its the lite doing it, not the wiring.

And all this goes double for little old ladies.

What I'd like to do is administer a written test to anyone that wants motion lites, they don't get them until they know enough about motion lites to pass the test.

 

[cadpoint]

I don't think you explained how the motion light works and that there is a reset time. I do like the part about testing to qualify.

 

[Joethemechanic]

The way I always felt about motion lights is, I just want a simple motion detector that does nothing but closes when it senses motion and then opens after a period of time.

I never bashed one open, but I'm guessing they contain a board with some type of IC on it and some digital logic

If I wanted the gosh-darn thing to stay on I'd have run another wire and then used a SPDT switch. Then I could be sure what it was going to do.

Americans and especially older Americans like things that are controlled by switches that have a positive motion, and a click.

If you think I'm kidding, read what Ron Popeil had to say about the mistakes of marketing the VCR.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I hate motion sensors. I get about six months out of them before the photocell stops disabling it at night. Of course it's not the sensors fault that the deer are constantly turning the lights on but I wish the leaves blowing in the wind wouldn't.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So strife- what did you find out? We need closure...

 

[renosteinke]

I think Joe was on the right track ...

Does Granny have / feed cats? Leave food out? Raccoons in the area?

 

[cpinetree]

I third the RAB motions

I third the RAB motions

I have stopped using EVERY motion light except for the Rab stealth series. In my experience, it's not just perception and an actual problem (usually with crappy motion sensors), though it is easier to write some customers off as crazy.

With even a full moon, bright sky, etc, they can reflect and cause a lot of the motions to turn on. Also, if the bulb is too close to the sensor, it will cause malfunctions. You can either aim them farther away from the sensor (tip, use the width of your hand), or you can use the shields. Most of the new Rab stealth "kits" come with the shields for par bulbs.

It also helps to leave a piece of painters tape under the switch explaining the function in big letters, if she is playing with the switch.

We also will only supply and install RAB motions, they have a great warranty and just WORK, we have had less than 2 call backs since supplying the RAB product (over 5 years of installations), and both were do to tree branches too close to the sensor that the customer was warned of.

Yes, the RAB fixtures are pricey, but they are super cheap compared to going back to house even one time.

If we install a customer supplied motion light (read: Home depot special), we make it very clear that any return trips are billed at our hourly rate, and our warranty is that there is power at the fixture only!

 

[kwired]

How long is the "off delay" set to. If too long and there is detectable activity out there it is probably reset before it ever turns off making it stay on continuously. Try setting it as short as possible and see what it does. If it cycles on/off all night then you know it is detecting something.

 

[Cow]

I hate to say it, but it's not the little old lady that's the problem. The problem is you gave her a break, and now that it isn't going well you just want to be able to say, "Well, I gave you a deal and all this additional hassle isn't worth my time."

I've had it happen to me. And I'd like to say, "Well, I didn't really charge you enough to do this job," to which they're likely to say, "Well if I had known you weren't going to do a good job I wouldn't have agreed to let you do it."

You're stuck, it was your mistake. Just get it working and move on.

I agree with this. So far I haven't seen anything the OP posted that said all these problems were/are directly caused by "little old ladies."

If you keep dropping customers based on assumptions eventually you may find yourself without any.