lAUNDRY RECEPTACLE

[1hank1]

210.52(F) For the laundry receptacle, 20 amp, can the gas dryer and washer be put on this circuit as well as an additional receptacle in the laundry room where an iron may be plugged in?

Hank[/code][/quote]

 

[chicar]

I don,t see a problem. 21011[c][2]

 

[dnem]

I can't give you a definitive answer because I haven't seen or heard much about this issue. What I can offer is the interpretation that my department follows. I'm an ESI for Medina County Building Department in Ohio.

We see 210.52(F) & 210.11(C)(2) as specifying laundry and not washer or washer & dryer. This would include receptacles for other laundry equipment such as the iron you mentioned.

How do we enforce this during inspections ?

When we come to inspect the rough, we may see a yellow jacketed 12 gauge Romex run to the receptacle box for the washer/dryer and it may be interconnected with other boxes within the laundry room. We then automatically assume that the contractor/builder/homeowner designation for those additional receptacles is as laundry equipment receptacles.

If we see a 12 gauge Romex at the washer/dryer box and then a different Romex [from the lighting or from other plugs/lights outside of the laundry room] coming into other receptacle boxes within the laundry room [usually a white jacketed 14 gauge Romex], we then automatically assume that the contractor/builder/homeowner designation for those additional receptacles is as general purpose receptacles.

Side note:
210.8(A)(7) specifies GFCI protection for plugs within 6' of a sink. As stated by the Handbook on page 76, "Unlike the GFCI requirements for garages and unfinished basements, there are no exceptions to GFCI protection for receptacles installed within 6 ft of laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks". This includes laundry recepts. This means the washer must be GFCI when its plug is within 6' of a sink. As the Handbook pointedly states for bathroom/laundry combo rooms on page 73, "For example, if a washing machine is located in the bathroom, the 15- or 20- ampere, 125 volt receptacle that is required to be supplied from the laundry branch circuit must be GFCI protected."

In homes with the washer or dryer plug within 6' of a sink, we suggest to our contractors that they load the washer/dryer plug from a GFCI located in another laundry plug so that the washer or dryer would not need to be moved to reset the GFCI if it should trip.

David

 

[tom baker]

Dnem:
thanks for your answer.Its nice to see it from the AHJ perspective

 

[1hank1]

thanks for the reply. What I usually do is put the washer/dryer on one branch circuit, and add another circuit for irons and other appliances. I always wondered why I did it that way code wise.

Hank

 

[iwire]

If we see a 12 gauge Romex at the washer/dryer box and then a different Romex [from the lighting or from other plugs/lights outside of the laundry room] coming into other receptacle boxes within the laundry room [usually a white jacketed 14 gauge Romex], we then automatically assume that the contractor/builder/homeowner designation for those additional receptacles is as general purpose receptacles.

Can we install receptacle outlets in a laundry supplied by a 15 amp branch branch circuit?

That is often hotly contested here.

 

[dnem]

If we see a 12 gauge Romex at the washer/dryer box and then a different Romex [from the lighting or from other plugs/lights outside of the laundry room] coming into other receptacle boxes within the laundry room [usually a white jacketed 14 gauge Romex], we then automatically assume that the contractor/builder/homeowner designation for those additional receptacles is as general purpose receptacles.

Can we install receptacle outlets in a laundry supplied by a 15 amp branch branch circuit?

That is often hotly contested here.

Yes, in our county that is the interpretation. As long as you have one additional 20 amp circuit for the washer/dryer.

12 gauge 20 amp dedicated circuit for all laundry equipment laundry room plugs only 210.11(C)(2)
all other laundry room plugs can be on that same circuit
or a 14 gauge 15 amp circuit that can be intermixed with lighting and/or loads in other rooms for all general purpose laundry room plugs
or a 12 gauge 20 amp circuit that can be intermixed with lighting and/or loads in other rooms for all general purpose laundry room plugs

It may be hotly contested because 210.11(C)(3) uses the word "room", Bathroom Branch Circuits
whereas 210.11(C)(2) does not use the word "room", Laundry Branch Circuits
and 210.52(F) uses the word "areas", Laundry Areas

The ESIs in our county department has taken the position that every single 120 volt receptacle in all bathrooms must be:
1) on a dedicated 20 amp circuit that is limited as specified in 210.11(C)(3) & 210.52(D)
2) GFCI protected 210.8(A)(1)
This includes but not limited to the plug required within 3' of the sink 210.52(D)

We have also taken the position that only receptacles designated as laundry equipment must be on a dedicated 20 amp circuit that is limited as specified in 210.11(C)(2) & 210.52(F). Designation comes at the time of the rough and is seen by how the laundry room is circuited.

David

 

[iwire]

I am not saying where I stand on this, just starting trouble. :lol:

Another hot one is adding 15 amp receptacle circuits to the kitchen once the required 20 amp circuit receptacles are in place.

Bob

 

[goldstar]

I don,t see a problem. 21011[c][2]

Both Mike Holt and Charles Miller have written articles on this subject and both have agreed that as long as that 20 amp circuit does not leave the laundry area or room you may install additional receptacles.

Now, having said that, there will always be one PITA inspector that will claim that the last sentence in 210.11(c)(2) states clearly that "This circuit shall have no other outlets", and will not allow you to install additional receptacles. The language used is "laundry" and not "washer and dryer." Personally, I don't care one way or the other, but I think it's time that a CMP make a ruling on this in the near future and make it clear to everyone.

 

[dnem]

I am not saying where I stand on this, just starting trouble. :lol:

Another hot one is adding 15 amp receptacle circuits to the kitchen once the required 20 amp circuit receptacles are in place.

Bob

That seems pretty straight forward. I don't know why it would be considered to be controversial.

210.52(B)(1)X2 allows a 15 amp frig plug
210.52(B)(1)X1 allows 15 amp switched plugs on a general purpose circuit as long as you fulfill the requirement of 210.70(A)(1)X1 which specifies that at least one light must be hardwired in kitchens & bathrooms.

David

 

[1hank1]

dnem, The way I read 210.70(a)(1), you cannot have a wall switch controlled receptacle in either the kitchen or bath. All receptacles must be installed on a 20 amp circuit. Am I missing something?

Hank

 

[dnem]

dnem, The way I read 210.70(a)(1), you cannot have a wall switch controlled receptacle in either the kitchen or bath. All receptacles must be installed on a 20 amp circuit. Am I missing something?

Hank

210.70(A)(1):"Habitable Rooms. At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom."
This states the general rule: Every room must have a minimum of one switch controlled hardwired light. You can have as many additional switch controlled hardwired lights as you choose. The general rule only requires one source of light. Once you satisfy the general rule you can add any number of switch controlled hardwired lights in any room of the house. Once you satisfy the general rule you can add any number of switch controlled plugs in any room of the house.

210.70(A)(1)X1: "In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets."
"in lieu of" or instead of the hardwired light, you can have one or more switch controlled plug(s) except in the kitchen or bathroom. The kitchen or bathroom can not use the exception. Those rooms must still use the general rule. You can have as many additional switch controlled hardwired lights as you choose. The general rule only requires one source of light. Once you satisfy the general rule you can add any number of switch controlled hardwired lights in any room of the house. Once you satisfy the general rule you can add any number of switch controlled plugs in any room of the house.

It's very very common in my county to have switched plugs above the kitchen cabinets. Once the general room of at least one hardwired light in the kitchen is satisfied, you can add any number of switched plugs that you choose to add.

But the NEC is like the Bible. It doesn't spell things out in detailed and plain language that would allow every inspector in the country to understand exactly what is required, what is prohibited, and what is allowed in every single situation. We must use logic and interpret at times. The Bible has had the same type of impact on Christianity. There are 1000s of interpretations and 1000s of denominations.

David

 

[dnem]

dnem, The way I read 210.70(a)(1), you cannot have a wall switch controlled receptacle in either the kitchen or bath. All receptacles must be installed on a 20 amp circuit. Am I missing something?

Hank

Also, read 210.52(B)(1)X1
It plainly says that switched controlled recepts are allowed in kitchens and all other rooms covered by 210.52(B)(1)

The only item of interpretation is if those kitchen recepts are allowed to be 14 gauge 15 amp or if only a dedicated frig plug can be 14 gauge 15 amp 210.52(B)(1)X2

David

 

[jeff43222]

Another hot one is adding 15 amp receptacle circuits to the kitchen once the required 20 amp circuit receptacles are in place.

Bob

210.52(B)(1) Receptacle Outlets Served In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

Seems to me a 15A receptacle circuit in the kitchen is fine as long as it doesn't fall under any of the above. So any of the items listed in 210.52(C)(5), for example, would be OK on a 15A circuit.

I often install a 15A multiwire receptacle circuit for a dishwasher/disposal, and I've never been tagged for it.

 

[George Stolz]

David, I hate to be the one to say this, but you're a lousy inspector. I can't find a single thing to disagree with you about. :?

The only item of interpretation is if those kitchen recepts are allowed to be 14 gauge 15 amp or if only a dedicated frig plug can be 14 gauge 15 amp 210.52(B)(1)X2

Which? The rope light receptacles over the cabinet? They don't qualify as wall-space, counter-space, or refrigerator receptacles do they? (210.52(B)(1))

Personally, I don't care one way or the other, but I think it's time that a CMP make a ruling on this in the near future and make it clear to everyone.

Phil, then what would we argue about? I'd have to learn different sections, like Hazardous Locations, or something. That's a lot of work!

 

[George Stolz]

Dang it, Jeff, you beat me.

 

[goldstar]

Phil, then what would we argue about?

George,

Just trying to get everyone on the same page with issues such as this one. This is not a gray area as far as I'm concerned. Some higher authority should make a decision - either you can or you can't install additional receptacles on the laundry circuit and let's move on. Why do they insist on leaving it up to the local AHJ thereby giving him/her dominion over what happens in their area ? Here in NJ when the DCA rules in your favor (as they have on this issue for me) they include a disclaimer in their letter of interpretation stating "this is my opinion only and not binding on any party." Then what do we need your opinion for ?

Obviously, by the mere exisatance of this forum, there are many things we colleagues could argue about. But I get real ticked off when every inspector in 3 neighboring counties agree that additional receptacles are allowed in a laundry area under the conditions we've discussed except for one PITA inspector. What irritates me is that our state DCA does not come down on this guy and force him to change his opinions and that's because most of the EC's don't call up or write to complain for fear that the next job in that town will be looked at more extensively. That, in and of itself, is bogus.[/quote]

 

[LarryFine]

. . . most of the EC's don't call up or write to complain for fear that the next job in that town will be looked at more extensively.

In my opinion, backing off with an incorrect call is more harmful in the long run.

 

[goldstar]

Larry,

I didn't file a complaint with the DCA regarding this inspector. However, I did write to them and presented my point of view citing NEC sections and they agreed with my interpretations. I don't look to get myself in trouble but I don't take any crap either. If I believe I'm right I make it known and if the inspector is right I make it known to him also. If an inspector wants to fail me on ridicuolous and petty stuff on the next job I do in his town because I questioned him and/or wrote to the DCA on this topic, then I'll take the fight to another level.

For the most part I believe I'm well liked, I get a lot of repeat business and referrals both from my customers and from other contractors, I'm fairly knowledgable about my trade, I participate in forums like this one and I'll be damned if I'll allow some egotistical, self-rightious inspector to stop me from doing business in his town.

And that's the long and short of it.

 

[dnem]

Some higher authority should make a decision - either you can or you can't install additional receptacles on the laundry circuit and let's move on. Why do they insist on leaving it up to the local AHJ thereby giving him/her dominion over what happens in their area ?

Speaking as an inspector, I couldn't agree with you more.

It's true that there are a huge number of possible electrical installations that are covered by the entire code and the endless possibilities make it impossible to give complete answers to every installation in commercial and industrial setting. BUT, wiring a house isn't rocket science. There are a very limited number of questions that come up over and over and over again that cover 95 to 99 % of the entire house electrical system.

Why can't the NEC plainly answer these and end the current system of patchwork AHJ interpretations ?

There really is no reason that this should be such an ongoing issue. As an electrician, you need a consistent answer that needs to apply everywhere. That answer would only be changed by local code, if any. As inspector, I need more support and help from the NEC than I'm getting.

As an example see the other thread that I've posted extensively on about the number of recepts allowed on a circuit. After pages and pages of debate, there's still no one answer that everybody accepts. And the code articles that we all are looking to for support are not providing the needed specific information.

David