Laundry Room Arc Fault

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Sparky!

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What about if the washer and dryer are in a unfinished basement, does the laundry circuit still require a Arc Fault breaker?

Thanks,
 
IMO that is an ahj call but I would say that the circuit would require afci. What consititutes a laundry area? The washer and dryer-- Again I would install an afci but your inspector may let it slide.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
IMO that is an ahj call but I would say that the circuit would require afci. What consititutes a laundry area? The washer and dryer-- Again I would install an afci but your inspector may let it slide.
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I agree with Dennis. If the laundry circuit (210.11(C)(2)) was installed to the unfinished basement, which is now being designated as the "Laundry Area" then that branch circuit would require AFCI protection.
 
I was going to start a new thread, but I have a similar question. IF the washer and dryer are in the basement, does everything in the basement need to be AFCI protected? Including HVAC service receptacles?
 
mbrooke said:
IF the washer and dryer are in the basement, does everything in the basement need to be AFCI protected?
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2014 NEC 210.12(A) is careful to call out "laundry areas" even though it goes on to repeat it.
. . . laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas . . .
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Now, to me, this is not saying "the entire area that has the laundry in it", but, rather is saying "the area occupied by the laundry itself." The problem with the "entire area that has the laundry in it" is that there is no way to know where to stop, is it the full basement area, is it the total floor area of the house, is it the whole floor area plus the attic and the attached garage because they are all part of the single family dwelling?

Laundry area is not a specifically defined term in Article 100, so we are left with the dictionary. As a result of that ambiguity, where I work, the State of Minnesota Authority Having Jurisdiction has published the following interpretation: 2014 NEC FAQ

AFCI in Laundry Area
3. Question: If the laundry for a dwelling is located in the basement do all the branch circuits in the basement require AFCI protection?
Answer: No
Although not specifically defined, a laundry area would only encompass that part or section of the basement that has the specific laundry function.
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IMHO an unfinished basement is not a similar area to any of the areas mentioned. I am assuming that the W/D are installed as they have for years against a concrete wall. It is not a similar area unless you 'finish' the area around it.
 
jxofaltrds said:
IMHO an unfinished basement is not a similar area to any of the areas mentioned. I am assuming that the W/D are installed as they have for years against a concrete wall. It is not a similar area unless you 'finish' the area around it.
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I think the issue is that the inspector should not result to the "similar area" aspect of the situation. The fact is you are dealing with an unfinished basement....BUT the required branch circuit for the laundry is installed in that unfinished basement. The fact that the branch circuit is supplying the washer location and is indeed being used as a "Laundry Area" that the rule fits. The inspector is sharp enough to know where that imaginary line begins and ends...well the ones I know do.
 
jxofaltrds said:
IMHO an unfinished basement is not a similar area to any of the areas mentioned. I am assuming that the W/D are installed as they have for years against a concrete wall. It is not a similar area unless you 'finish' the area around it.
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Similar situation encountered occasionally is an unfinished basement that could also be defined as a bathroom. Does that make the entire unfinished basement a bathroom or just the vicinity (that may need some boundary defined somehow but NEC does not define the boundary) that fits the definition of bathroom? Makes a difference if you can put the panel serving the entire house in that basement.
 
MasterTheNEC said:
I think the issue is that the inspector should not result to the "similar area" aspect of the situation. The fact is you are dealing with an unfinished basement....BUT the required branch circuit for the laundry is installed in that unfinished basement. The fact that the branch circuit is supplying the washer location and is indeed being used as a "Laundry Area" that the rule fits. The inspector is sharp enough to know where that imaginary line begins and ends...well the ones I know do.
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And the basement lights?

So if I have a W/D in the garage do the lights have to be AFCI protected?

What about the GFCI for the GDO if it is in 'that area'?

kwired said:
Similar situation encountered occasionally is an unfinished basement that could also be defined as a bathroom. Does that make the entire unfinished basement a bathroom or just the vicinity (that may need some boundary defined somehow but NEC does not define the boundary) that fits the definition of bathroom? Makes a difference if you can put the panel serving the entire house in that basement.
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20130712_020143000_iOS.jpg
 
kwired said:
Similar situation encountered occasionally is an unfinished basement that could also be defined as a bathroom. Does that make the entire unfinished basement a bathroom or just the vicinity . . .
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Found this in the wild, three years back. It had been in existence for half a century in a jurisdiction renowned for its strict and rigorous electrical inspections (but, apparently questionable plumbing inspections.)

Unfinished Basement Bath web.jpg
 
al hildenbrand said:
Found this in the wild, three years back. It had been in existence for half a century in a jurisdiction renowned for its strict and rigorous electrical inspections (but, apparently questionable plumbing inspections.)

View attachment 12455
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Now we need to question what rules were in existence when that was installed.

First one is working clearances - seems like there would be good chance of that one being there at the time.

Definition of bathroom and prohibition of overcurrent devices in a bathroom seems likely to have come after this was installed. (based on image alone this may or may not be a NEC defined bathroom)
 
kwired said:
Now we need to question what rules were in existence when that was installed.

First one is working clearances - seems like there would be good chance of that one being there at the time.

Definition of bathroom and prohibition of overcurrent devices in a bathroom seems likely to have come after this was installed. (based on image alone this may or may not be a NEC defined bathroom)
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For the era, late Fifties, early Sixties, the working space requirements were certainly violated by the placement of the stool. And, frankly, given the specific dwelling, I doubt that the stool was inspected. . . that it was a DIY project.

The panel and stool were in the "closet" under the back door entry, with the stairs down to this basement level on the right side of the picture. There was never a sink.

I had to face the issue 'cause the present homeowner wanted circuit breakers at the least possible cost.
 
jxofaltrds said:
And the basement lights?

So if I have a W/D in the garage do the lights have to be AFCI protected?

Are you using the area for living purposes? you're certainly doing laundry down there and in there -- good question. Generally I do not see garage lighting on its own circuit it is usually combined with some other gen recpt circuit.
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mwm1752 said:
Are you using the area for living purposes? you're certainly doing laundry down there and in there -- good question. Generally I do not see garage lighting on its own circuit it is usually combined with some other gen recpt circuit.
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For a Laundry Area, against the basement wall, in an unfinished dwelling basement, 210.70(A) does not have a hook to "require" a lighting outlet. So, the basement general area lighting, which, coincidentally, illuminates the Laundry Area, can't be said to be specifically for the Laundry Area.

Laundry Area lighting, above and beyond the minimum required for an unfinished basement, will be a design choice, and, if Laundry Area lighting is added in the Laundry Area of the unfinished basement, would then, in fact need AFCI, in my opinion.
 
I get your point but you may have missed mine -- the lighting used in the basement whether specific or general is still used to enter & exit & used while using the space for living purposes.
 
mwm1752 said:
I get your point but you may have missed mine -- the lighting used in the basement whether specific or general is still used to enter & exit & used while using the space for living purposes.
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General illumination of a basement is largely a requirement of building code, not the NEC. Whether the illumination of the unfinished basement is used by a human, or, whether the unfinished basement is used as part of habitation, is not included in 210.12(A).

The NEC does not define "living purpose" and "living purpose" is not part of 210.12(A), nor 210.70(A).
 
And 210.70(A)(3), which does cover basements, is distinctly NOT part of 210.70(A)(1) which is for Habitable Rooms.
 
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