lay in lights

[jimwalker]

Is there any nec rules on fastening lay ins.Had dispute today on how.I was taught screws on oppasit corners or grid wires.And many now have a clip that can be bend down.

[ September 02, 2005, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]

 

[steve66]

Re: lay in lights

Yes, right under luminaries. 401.16(C) in the 2002 NEC.

Steve

 

[marinesgt0411]

Re: lay in lights

here in Naples fl I think it is the fire marshals call and what is spec. clips that are properly bent down work in most cases screws through fixture into grid also work but in some places like schools and med care fac. need to be independently supported (wires on diagonal corners)NOT fastened to grid

had a building once that had over 400 2x4 lay ins inspector asked if they were fastened to grid told him yes they were screws in each corner of fixture he walked over picked up a broom handle and pushed up on fixture it was the only fixture in the place that did not get screwed down had to go back and personally check all the fixtures

also check out 410.16(C)

 

[dillon3c]

Re: lay in lights

Steve I'm almost sure you ment 410.16(c)

The factory attached, fixture hurricane clip-(if thats what you want to call them)-They are about a useless as "utters on a bull"..

Inspection departments around here,if they can raise-up one-side of fixture out of grid...
Then requirements of 410.16(c)have not been met.

(*securely fastened)

 

[jimwalker]

Re: lay in lights

but as far as how to screw them down ? I got told thursday to put them in middle.We passed inspection but was worried.Inspector wanted to see the screws on a clean room 2x4.Had it screwed from inside to grid because the hepa filters were in the way.The guy was good he found the only place we missed a batwing in the place .Sometimes i think they won't leave till they find something.

 

[macmikeman]

Re: lay in lights

I confess I haven't done a lay in light fixture job in at least 3 years now, but Caddy used to make a clip listed for this purpose to hold down the lights. They are tough little buggers to remove once installed. Still I like the idea of independent wires to add addtional support directly attached to the fixture itself. Not a code, but for long term peace of (I don't want to be dragged into a court when I'm in retirement) mind.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

Re: lay in lights

In Wilmington, NC, it is not an electrical code issue to independently support the lay in fixtures, but it is a building code to have them independently supported. So you install the "hurricane clips" for the electrical inspector and I just get the building contractor to leave enough ceiling wire on the job site to support the fixtures. Yea I know it should not be my job to support them since it is a building code not an electrical code, but I do it anyway. I believe we need to pick our battles; this is not one I chose to fight.

 

[dillon3c]

Re: lay in lights

Originally posted by hardworkingstiff:
but it is a building code to have them independently supported.

Yes it is..And it's another trades responsibility altogether, to drop the ceiling wire per the reflected ceiling drawings.

I've had this conversation before with the ceiling contractors.Where he believed, because this was mandated and (wrote-in) division #16 of the job specifications,this somehow relieved him of the duties..

Not so sir..Electricians don't perform the such.

*Thats alot like saying,that anything in division #15 is just out of my scope. So its not in a need of me, to read over the Mechanical, or the Plumbing specifications..

Heck,it's not #1600..( So I don't own any of it)..right?

Had to vent..thanx..

 

[iwire]

Re: lay in lights

dillon3c in my area we own the installation of the tie wires.

Why not go a step further and tell the ceiling guy he has to unbox and drop the fixtures in the grid in order for you to wire them. (I would if it worked )

It is probably another regional issue.

 

[dillon3c]

Re: lay in lights

Thats not the same thing Bob.

I'm sorry,didn't I remember you saying...I don't cut sheet-rock for the added outlets..That was you..right bob?

 

[iwire]

Re: lay in lights

Originally posted by dillon3c:
Thats not the same thing Bob.

Why not?

Really I do not get the distinction

 

[dillon3c]

Re: lay in lights

you right.. a regional issue..

I'm not expecting the man to hang my lights.

I don't remember,one set of reflected ceiling drawings (his set)..Having a fixture schedule on it anywhere.

I don't remeber it having-even, the fixtures drawn in...Just the blank-face hole.

So seeing,he would be without all this critical information,yeh guess it be asking to much for him to unbox,lay the fixture in..

Back to his scope,yes drop me ceiling wire down into that 2x4 openning,as your dropping and fullfilling your other contract requirements..

 

[iwire]

Re: lay in lights

Originally posted by dillon3c:
I don't remember,one set of reflected ceiling drawings (his set)..Having a fixture schedule on it anywhere.

I don't remember it having-even, the fixtures drawn in...Just the blank-face hole.

Agreed, so your right he does not have to lay in my fixtures.

Originally posted by dillon3c:
Back to his scope,yes drop me ceiling wire down into that 2x4 openning,as your dropping and fullfilling your other contract requirements..

So can you tell me where I look in the scope that says the ceiling guy must drop wires for the blank hole?

I am not trying to be a PITA here, I am truly interested. :roll: )

 

[dillon3c]

Re: lay in lights

[/QUOTE]

*Thats alot like saying,that anything in division #15 is just out of my scope. So its not in a need of me, to read over the Mechanical, or the Plumbing specifications.. [/QB][/QUOTE]

-I ran back up here,to return and glue-.

Any set of specifications with tell you what division number,pertains to what trade.

There generally is a disclaimer,(and trying to remeber the words)..near front of book..

Don't quote me on the exact wording.

Someting to the affect of..*NOT LIMITTED TOO..and, read the other divisional specifications..(*I just don't know If I'm quoting it right)

Bob, I need to pull up a book..Maybe have one somewhere here in the house, I believe..Will try to locate this weekend..

Edited: Ya know,come to think of it. The ceiling contractor,is generally covered in this achitectural section,and covered under the general contractors section of duties,work performed,scope,execution and standards.

Being how he generally is one of the.. (minor-subs)..

[ September 03, 2005, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: dillon3c ]