LCP Panel Question

[titan1021]

I've got a small restaurant project under way and an LCP panel is called for in the plans. The panel only needs to control the outdoor lighting which consists of
(5) wall packs, (4) recessed lights, and a sign.

The plan only specifies that the LCP be Ca. Title24 compliant with astronomical timer, auto-shutoff, and 2-hour manual override.

I've narrowed it down to one of the two panels below, I'm just not sure which one I need. The only difference as far as I can tell is the PIR low voltage feature.
I'm not sure if I need the PIR feature at that additional cost, I've searched online and even emailed Wattstopper to try and determine what that feature is used for and if it is necessary for my application. I've had no luck with either.

Hoping someone here is familiar with these panels and can give me a brief answer/explanation.

Thanks!

 

[brantmacga]

Completely unfamiliar with the Ca 24 requirements; @Fulthrotl would know.

But the PIR accessory is for occ/vac sensors.

I’ve been using fixtures with microwave motion sensors built-in when needed for outdoor applications.

The Wattstopper peanut panel is a good product. I’ve used the Greengate LiteKeeper panel also recently, which is the same product but from Cooper.

Edit to add…. Make sure you look at the specs of the override switch wiring. I’m not sure what switch the Lp8 uses for global override. I know the zones can use a 2-wire momentary contact switch, and you may be able to program one of those contacts for override of all zones. But the LiteKeeper requires a specific Belden cable for their LV switches that is $2/ft and comes on a 500’ spool…. I didn’t think about that before commenting the first time. It is cost prohibitive for a single switch installation.


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[titan1021]

Completely unfamiliar with the Ca 24 requirements; @Fulthrotl would know.

But the PIR accessory is for occ/vac sensors.

I’ve been using fixtures with microwave motion sensors built-in when needed for outdoor applications.

The Wattstopper peanut panel is a good product. I’ve used the Greengate LiteKeeper panel also recently, which is the same product but from Cooper.

Edit to add…. Make sure you look at the specs of the override switch wiring. I’m not sure what switch the Lp8 uses for global override. I know the zones can use a 2-wire momentary contact switch, and you may be able to program one of those contacts for override of all zones. But the LiteKeeper requires a specific Belden cable for their LV switches that is $2/ft and comes on a 500’ spool…. I didn’t think about that before commenting the first time. It is cost prohibitive for a single switch installation.


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Thanks for the input and advice. This makes sense as I have used wall and ceiling mounted occupancy sensors with PIR. Since the LCP is only required for control of the exterior lighting, I won't need to worry about the PIR feature and can save some money.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I've got a small restaurant project under way and an LCP panel is called for in the plans. The panel only needs to control the outdoor lighting which consists of
(5) wall packs, (4) recessed lights, and a sign.

The plan only specifies that the LCP be Ca. Title 24 compliant with astronomical timer, auto-shutoff, and 2-hour manual override.

I've narrowed it down to one of the two panels below, I'm just not sure which one I need. The only difference as far as I can tell is the PIR low voltage feature.
I'm not sure if I need the PIR feature at that additional cost, I've searched online and even emailed Wattstopper to try and determine what that feature is used for and if it is necessary for my application. I've had no luck with either.

Hoping someone here is familiar with these panels and can give me a brief answer/explanation.

Thanks!

assuming lighting is all 120 vac.
cheapest solution?

holy crap. i just priced them. used to be.... $390. no more.
i used to buy them six at a time. contractors used yellow dial
time clocks, which are $60 and not t 24 complaint, and i'd
keep two of these in the trunk, and they could have them at
my cost, to prevent me from having to come back, at additional
costs. saved a lot of return trips at full charge.

still the cheapest solution. also the easiest to program.

intermatic ET90215C
INTERMATIC ET90215C 2-CIRCUIT 365-DAY ASTRONOMIC TIME SWITCH

for the two hour bypass timer, put a wind up 2 hour timer in a 104 handi box under the
thing, to bridge circuit 1, for after hours service. about $25.

use the second circuit for the sign. no override needed per T24. set it dusk to dawn, 365 days,
program in your geographic location and date.

before setting it up, go into advanced, hit the up arrow, select "restore factory defaults" and
reset it. then program it. you will thank me in six months. honest.

depending on what city you are in, they may require T24 certification. i do that, and cover
the entire state, but you can probably find someone in that half of the state for less money.
travel costs are daunting now, and i don't do much travel up to northern california.

i'd do one trip a week, and hit all the people who needed a cert, and get four or five of them,
but for a single hit, it's really not worth it for either me or the contractor.

i can hook you up with a good guy in the san jose area if you need that service.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I've got a small restaurant project under way and an LCP panel is called for in the plans. The panel only needs to control the outdoor lighting which consists of
(5) wall packs, (4) recessed lights, and a sign.

The plan only specifies that the LCP be Ca. Title24 compliant with astronomical timer, auto-shutoff, and 2-hour manual override.

I've narrowed it down to one of the two panels below, I'm just not sure which one I need. The only difference as far as I can tell is the PIR low voltage feature.
I'm not sure if I need the PIR feature at that additional cost, I've searched online and even emailed Wattstopper to try and determine what that feature is used for and if it is necessary for my application. I've had no luck with either.

Hoping someone here is familiar with these panels and can give me a brief answer/explanation.

Thanks!

btw, interior lights also need to be T24 compliant for controls.

what did they put on the plans for that? you have lighting control
and daylight harvesting to comply with. oftentimes, the EE is from
out of state, and will draw something completely non compliant.
that is why T24 lighting certification became a thing.

you can often do it with the same time clock, but as you only have two
circuits available, you'd have to go to the intermatic 4 circuit unit,
and they are stupid expensive, and not warranted.

what most people end up with is lutron vive for a quick and easy
install. starbucks has used those nationwide for years now. i can
program a vive system on a starbucks size job in under an hour,
assuming the field wiring is correct.

however, getting the parts is gonna suck. not easily available.

but, if you ended up having to use a vive system, you could
lose the intermatic timer, and just run the outdoor lights and
sign off two powpacks. easy peasy.

 

[brantmacga]

intermatic ET90215C
INTERMATIC ET90215C 2-CIRCUIT 365-DAY ASTRONOMIC TIME SWITCH

for the two hour bypass timer, put a wind up 2 hour timer in a 104 handi box under the
thing, to bridge circuit 1, for after hours service. about $25.

I’ve been doing some vanilla-box retail recently and this is the exact setup I’m using. One circuit for the sign, one circuit for interior lighting. Bypass is wired to interior lighting circuit. PC at the house panel for exterior building lighting, and PC caps on the site lighting.


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[Fulthrotl]

I’ve been doing some vanilla-box retail recently and this is the exact setup I’m using. One circuit for the sign, one circuit for interior lighting. Bypass is wired to interior lighting circuit. PC at the house panel for exterior building lighting, and PC caps on the site lighting.

yup. you don't have daylight harvesting, and demand response, and all the other CA stuff.
but you can feed this to some lighting contactors, and use dimmers, and be good to go
in most situations with small retail in calif.

CA pole lighting has to have motion sensors to dim 50%. so you have a white sensor on
the bottom of the lighthead, a photo eye on the top, and you feed it hot, and you are done.

and if it's not your first rodeo, you make a loop thru the parking lot, tying everything with an
in and an out, and pull it that way. this way, you can lose any one single conduit, and not have
to do anything besides disconnect the dead one, and move on. no dig ups and repairs. no
TDR's looking for shorts. no tears. and all it costs you is 100' of 3/4" pvc, full of wire. easy peasy.