Leadership skills in the trades...

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e57

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Anyone have any feelings about the relative lack of leadership skills and training in the Trades?

Having taken several courses on the subject years ago, (In non-trade related professions) and several years in the military where there were often courses on the same, I have taken note of some things that seem to be non-existent in the leadership styles of Foremen, Field Supervisors, and Project Managers. Having been the two prior, I've tried to do my part on promoting better leadership skills.

Also, what would you consider yourself to be?

An "Autocratic Leader", "My way or the highway?

A "Democratic Leader", who discusses options with subordinates, and allows options on a path to be a discussion for them?

Or a combination of both?

(Be honest...)
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

I always tell the guys, "There's 10 ways to do anything. As long as your way is NEAT, MEETS CODE, ISN'T EXPENSIVE and is a lest AS FAST as my normal way, your way is fine with me." I'm not sure what kind of leader that makes me. Perhaps a non-leader?
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

e57 that's kind of funny. Not ho ho ho funny. Yes I have observed the lack of leadership. I have also observed the lack of taking on more responsibility, making the opportunity and then taking charge of the situation.
I ahve numerous leadership courses under the belt also--military, Boy Scouts, and others.
The old saying is true--You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
I think some of the Foreman were happy being the "follower" and not the leader. But they'll sure take the extra pay!

I consider myself democratic to a point, then some times it's my way.

There are Four ways to do things:
Right way, Wrong way, hard way, and easy way. I prefer the Right, easy way! :D
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

if the four ways to do things are different, you can't have it "right" and "easy" at the same time. :D

paul
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

What we need to realize is that we are always leading. And by leading we are following. Leading means following the safe, efficient, proper methods ourselves. If you have any experience in your trade, even if you are working alone, somebody is watching you, seeing how you do things by either inspections, or their use of your finished product. Does what you have done reflect "You"? Would You put your name on it? Would You use it if somebody else did the work the same way you did?

I have also been a leader in almost every job I have been put in from Eagle Scout, to Chief Petty Officer in the Navy, to a motor repair tech, to General Forman in a steel mill, to a Facilities Engineer. People watch every aspect of your life. I believe in the, there is more than one way to get a job done, and sometimes for a young greenhorn, they need to try the wrong way to see that it is the wrong way. As long as they are not putting something and especially someone in danger they need to learn. And everybody has different learning styles and methods.

The most important asset of a leader are the people that are following him. And if you don't have people following you, your not a leader. That does not mean go out and brow beat people to follow you. It means that if nobody is following or copying something that you do, then maybe you need to look at what your doing.

[ December 23, 2005, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: 69boss302 ]
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

Having never been exposed to any sort of leadership training at all, it is something I could certainly make good use of. Outside of the military, (too old to join up) does any body know where one might be able to get such training?.
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

I asked a couple of my workers today and they say that I am more democratic than autocratic, but that at times the situation does not allow for the democratic approach, for example if the issue is a code rule. No vote on that one, it is the law.

When I was in the navy, I attended thier LMET (leadership management education and training.) Later I worked for United Parcel Service, and attended thier leadership cources.

The biggest problem as I see it, is that supervisors dont understand that one cannot delegate responsibility. Authority can be delegated. Responsibility can not be. This means that if one of my wokers messes up, he is only responsible to me, I remain responsible to anyone above me. If for no other reason, than I misjudged the ammount of supervision that I needed to maintain, the mess up is as much my responsibility as theirs.
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

There was a well-known, but not all that well loved, admiral who once wrote a short article for a magazine that frequently published unsolicited articles on the topic of leadership. He criticized the magazine for publishing articles from junior officers, saying that they could not possibly know enough about the topic to earn the privilege of teaching it to others. Then he gave his simple, four principles of leadership. I read this over 20 years ago, so I don't remember the exact words. But it went something like this:
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Know your own job well.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Work hard at your own job.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Teach those who work for you want you want them to know, and make sure then understand what you want them to do.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"></font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stay in close touch with them, and make the effort to verify that they are doing what you want them to do.</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

I saw a sign one time in a facility, "If you want to find a great leader, don't look where there are a lot of people".
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

I have a question, Can leadership be taught or is it just learned?

There are ton's and ton's of leadership training classes, training, you would think that the world would be full of leaders.
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

Originally posted by macmikeman:
does any body know where one might be able to get such training?.
Ever heard of Dale Carnegie (spelling, I don't know, I never went to one of his but that seem's to be the big one of this day and age.)
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

Originally posted by 69boss302:
I have a question, Can leadership be taught or is it just learned?
Can quality craftsmanship be taught, or is it just learned?

The basics can be taught. The rest comes from an inborn ability, and experience.
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

You can't teach some one to care. you can only encourage those that do. Having 12 years in the Air Force, I have learned that even the newest guy knows something that you don't. One rule from the leaderership training I keep is Praise in front of all criticize one on one. A self motivated worker is better than any one that is afraid of screwing up.
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

I posted this same topic in another forum:
(Thought I'd share....)
It's not a matter of voting, it's you as the leader being able to listen, and identify the problem, then finding a way to resolve it, with both parties learning from it." (LK) - Well put! Democratic doesn't mean you're voting on it, whether you're going to do it or not, just theres a discussion of how to do it. And yes, sometimes the whip must be cracked!
There are advantages and disadvantages to being one type of leader or the other, as well as being a combination of both.

For instance, a company I used to work for had myself, and another guy as foremen, with seperate crews for years. An Autocrat, and myeslf, more of a combination, but more of a Democractic leader. Guys who had worked with the Autocrat came in with a certain skill set, and so did my crew. Some interesting things got noticed when we got a new PM who scrambled the egg a bit, and moved people around.

The guys who worked for the other Foreman were robotic, and needed more supervision. And after years of doing only what, and how they were told. They were almost limited to "Drill holes, land cable, splice wire" and then you needed to tell them which wires to splice. None were exposed to the code book or other technique of doing anything.

My guys were used to kind of a "chain of command". I laid out journeymen, who then laid out out the guy below him. Deligated authority for the task to the Journymen who would be responcable for it. I would often walk poeple through code, or other questions if they asked (Even about thier side work) or if I noticed a problem. They were independant, I could leave and go to another job for a few days, come back and things would get done.

The results of the "scrambed egg", the guys from the other crew didn't want to go back. Said the learned more with me in a month that they did in years with the other guy. (They also found out that my guys made more money, cause I would often praise them to the boss, rather than blame them for every mistake, but thats a different story.)

The other Foreman didn't want to give my guys up once he had them, 'cause he didn't "have to chase them down to give them work." And he wondered why our boss kept giving me the good guys for so long.... My guys that ended up with him, later refused to work with him and either left, or came back to me. And that Foreman later left due to the Autocratic practices of the PM, and later so did I.

Anyway, my point originally was that there are Pro's and Con's to both. Even our military has realized, long ago, that there or benifits to having a combination of both, in all but direct combat. Because the loss of a centralized autocratic leader often led to the death of whole battalions. (And mutiny) Overly democratic, although promoting inititive and independace, lacked total coordination for large scale operations. They found a combination of both, rank to rank, down the chain of command to be better. And the birth of the "Direct Order" Autocratic mode, and the "General Order/Directive" Democratic mode.
jbwhite...
The biggest problem as I see it, is that supervisors dont understand that one cannot delegate responsibility. Authority can be delegated. Responsibility can not be. This means that if one of my wokers messes up, he is only responsible to me, I remain responsible to anyone above me. If for no other reason, than I misjudged the ammount of supervision that I needed to maintain, the mess up is as much my responsibility as theirs.
You're absolutely right in that wording... "Authority can be delegated. Responsibility can not be."

Which is why one would follow up, and check progress and completion.

The Marine Corps had an acronym, like they do for everything, but one specific to assigning a task to someone, and followin up on it. Can remember to save my life what it was.... But it was good.
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

i treat all the helpers and prentices i get like medical school. we review jobs together and discuss problems together. i am the attending and let them do thier residency. if a problem comes up or they are doing a task i ask them what thier going to do, how thier going to do it, what final outcome is, how long is it going to take etc. i show them the things they need to know but for the most part i only interject in thier explanations to add in more questions if i hear something thats wrong or i dont like. after any of them finish something we go back and review what they did, and i ask them if anything could have been done differently. i seriously find the more questions i ask them the more i force them to think for themselves and hopefully become better electricians because of it.

the one thing i do pound into them that is nonnegotiable is " you render a service to people, the way they percieve you is only as good as the quality of the service you provide them"

in other words take pride in your work as it is a direct representation of yourself

ive had very good success with how i have been doing it. alhtough there are the given few who just dont care or are incapable of understanding or caring.
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

my own opinion----
years ago leadership was instilled mainly through our military forces and enough filtered down into our trade by ex-military personel and their actions and examples. since we no longer have a draft this valuable worker's trait is disappearing! not only in the trades but in our general public. and i see the few people with leadership skills not wanting foreman's jobs, but rather working with their tools! true leadership can't be taught -- it must be learnt and "lived"! i see so many examples of poor leadership in our everyday society which promotes poor customer service, which then renders unhappy customers. i have worked for a contractor who sent us to dale carnigy--zig zigler--time management--and leadership-- but i really don't think it made much difference to the students.
 
Re: Leadership skills in the trades...

The parameters and princables of leadership can be taught I believe. However most of leadership is common sense, and character, which may or not be able to be taught... But being able to recognize those qualities is half the battle there.

The process and policies of supervision can be taught... But are no substitute for real leadership.

</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Confidence in skill and experiance</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Being able to communicate well</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Vision toward an end goal</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Genuine enthusiasm for the task</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tact</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fairness</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Honesty (above and below)</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Responcability</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Integrity(Big word)</font>
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If those below you, and your peers don't see those things, you are just a supervisor, not a leader. IMO
 
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