This is a wierd one. Kind of posting for fun, also really stumped. This is going to have to be long to describe the situation, otherwise someone will think I've just overlooked something. A few days ago I went with my boss to check on a panel with some breaker issues. Opened the panel to find water everywhere. Dripping off wires, neutral bars, between breakers, about 1/8" on the bottom of the panel. Breakers were hot to touch (Old GE panel full of 1/2 size breakers). Had the home owner run dehumidifier in the room (finished, insulated, drywalled & carpeted) with the panel cover off until we could make it out today. So today we went to change the panel at the house and there was almost as much water as the other day. Started outside where my boss thought for sure the pvc pipe was bringing in the water. Turns out there is a short piece of pipe through the block with a 90 down and URD run to the disconnect about 200' away in the front. We dug a hole strait down about 18" below the side of the pipe and filled with gravel hopeing to have any water drain down there away from the pipe then filled on top with the dirt to cause the grade to drain the water away from that area. There are wood steps over top of this area and it is surrounded by 3 walls and about a 2' overhang. Thought everything was good. Went inside and removed the old corroded panel and got ready to install the new one. I looked inside the pipe at this time now that all the other wires were out of the way and it was completely dry. Odd? but the main conductors were dripping like crazy. We had to cut some drywall to fit the new panel and fight it up into place while getting all the branch circuits into the panel. For some reason the Neutral was still dripping water (about every 6-7 seconds another drop). We decided to let it finish drying out and get some lunch. About an hour later we get back now it has been probably easily 3 hours since we removed the neutral from the old panel and it is still dripping at the same rate. The pipe is dry, the outside jacket is dry, but still drip,drip,drip. Take paper towels and dry it and a few seconds later another drop is forming. This URD is about 18" down outside, goes up into a 90 into the house. In the old panel it was put into the neutral lug facing down so water wouldn't have filled the jacket. How is this possible? BTW panel board is dry, studs are dry, drywall & insulation above panel is dry, no water lines above or anywhere near, insulation and drywall below panel is wet, drywall is soft. Ideas, hypothis, wild guesses, conspiracy theries? Thanks for reading.
Leaky Neutral, No really it leaks!
- Thread starter MrHopper
- Start date
- Status
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
The one thing that comes to mind is if the conductors pass through an area where there is a big change in temperature without there being any duct seal. The temperature change will result in condensation, likely on the neutral conductor since it isn't insulated like the ungrounded ones.
Just my $0.02.
Just my $0.02.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
My eyes hurt.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Mr.Hopper, feel free to use the "Enter" or "Return" key every now and then, it helps some of us read your posts. 
My guess: Capillary action, the neutral's nicked in the run somewhere, or is immersed at the utility's connection.
Just a guess.
My guess: Capillary action, the neutral's nicked in the run somewhere, or is immersed at the utility's connection.
Just a guess.
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
I don't want to even try to read that whole thing. I do not know where your water comes from. But if any got into any breakers then replace them. Cause this is what I do know from actual experience. Breakers that have had water in them will dry out well enough. But something about the dunking/ drying makes them get really hot after a few months. And then they fail or melt. I have seen this repeatedly. I bet I will get shot down for this by some experts in the breaker field, but I know what I know from seeing with my own eyes.
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
I've dealt with two projects with leaking wiring (leaking from inside the insulation of the conductor).
Both times they were service conductors that went to a utility pole. Both times the connection at the pole were made with the conductor facing straight up. The rain just ran in around the wire inside the insulation and dripped out in the service disconnect. Very interesting.
I'm not sure this is the same situation as you, but thought it was a good place to share these incidents.
Both times they were service conductors that went to a utility pole. Both times the connection at the pole were made with the conductor facing straight up. The rain just ran in around the wire inside the insulation and dripped out in the service disconnect. Very interesting.
I'm not sure this is the same situation as you, but thought it was a good place to share these incidents.
larryl
Senior Member
- Location
- wrentham ma.
i agree,,i cant read it either,,it's to long a paragraph,,
I appreciate the ideas.
I will check the disconnect to see how that looks.
It is every bit of 200' away and I didn't think water would actually go through
it like a pipe.
Thanks a bunch, we replaced the panel with a new one and don't want to see it get ruined also.
(I used enter to make it easy for the rest of you)
I will check the disconnect to see how that looks.
It is every bit of 200' away and I didn't think water would actually go through
it like a pipe.
Thanks a bunch, we replaced the panel with a new one and don't want to see it get ruined also.
(I used enter to make it easy for the rest of you)
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Much appreciated! 8)MrHopper said:
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
[clear throat] Ahem. [/clear throat]
I predict that the 200' run is in PVC and that it is full of water.
The water is high enough that the conductor loop out of the ground and back down into the panel lugs has the conductor(s) acting like a siphon.
Digging a drywell below the run of PVC and installing a tee or LT in the PVC run should prevent the water collection, as long as the water table isn't close, or the source of the water in the first place.
If the conductors are aluminum, I'd be concerned that with this water in them now, they won't last long. I predict that they'll fail at the insulation gap that is allowing the water in.
[Karnack takes his turbine off]
I predict that the 200' run is in PVC and that it is full of water.
The water is high enough that the conductor loop out of the ground and back down into the panel lugs has the conductor(s) acting like a siphon.
Digging a drywell below the run of PVC and installing a tee or LT in the PVC run should prevent the water collection, as long as the water table isn't close, or the source of the water in the first place.
If the conductors are aluminum, I'd be concerned that with this water in them now, they won't last long. I predict that they'll fail at the insulation gap that is allowing the water in.
[Karnack takes his turbine off]
more info...
more info...
I asked my boss how the top was hooked into the disconnect because I never looked at that yesterday. He said it comes out of the ground up into the disconnect (about 2') and is totally internal.
The service wires are not in pipe but directly buried, this is common around Ohio. They are only in pipe where they enter the home (through the 90) and enter the disconnect.
What I'm gathering now is it is probably a nick in the jacket of the neutral conductor allowing the water to enter the wire.
more info...
I asked my boss how the top was hooked into the disconnect because I never looked at that yesterday. He said it comes out of the ground up into the disconnect (about 2') and is totally internal.
The service wires are not in pipe but directly buried, this is common around Ohio. They are only in pipe where they enter the home (through the 90) and enter the disconnect.
What I'm gathering now is it is probably a nick in the jacket of the neutral conductor allowing the water to enter the wire.
- Status