LED lamp failing

[mweisslasvegas]

I am having an issue with some LED I installed and a battle with salesman that claims the installation is the cause. These lights are completely self contained LED fixtures from Forest Lighting T8n435. It come with a standard 5-15 cord cap that plugs in the end that is removable to wire in directly. These also have an option of chaining them together with a plastic adapter. The light is rated at 100-277v 0.18amp. I installed 8 of them chained together to 277v 20amp circuit.
They worked fine until a month later then 2 of them in the middle started flashing. I checked power was fine and no matter what location in the string I put those 2 that started flashing they both continued to flash. Even if plugged into a wall individually. Salesman claimed my installation was wrong that too many were connected together and caused the damage. My own curiosity got me and I opened one up and it turns that the LED board is wired to the input ckt wiring at one end only and that there is a 16ga wire going to the other end for chaining them together. So in my opinion the lights are technically not chained together as in the power does not go thru any of the components to get to the other end.
I guess Im just looking for confirmation of what I think regarding the claim that there is too many lights connected to each other. I dont feel they are connected together at all.
Thanks for reading.

 

[petersonra]

How does the instruction manual say to connect them?

 

[LarryFine]

Welcome to the forum.

They worked fine until a month later then 2 of them in the middle started flashing. I checked power was fine and no matter what location in the string I put those 2 that started flashing they both continued to flash. Even if plugged into a wall individually.

That tells me that the power supplies of just those two went bad.

If there were too many lights, the end ones would have failed first.

 

[mweisslasvegas]

Yes agree that the lights failed themselves. It appeared to me that it wouldnt have been possible to fail the way the guys was saying. the instruction book did not say there was a limit to the amount of lights you could connect together. After seeing how they were built and that they only draw 0.18 amps 19watts that there could be quite a few connected together not exceeding the rate of the 16ga wire inside. Thanks everybody

 

[Flicker Index]

That's a classic rail and rung chain with pass through rail and the fixture just being one rung.

Looks like Forest Lighting is a China brand. https://www.forestlighting.com/collection/indoor-lighting/2 ask the factory what the limit is within telling them how many you've installed. If it wasn't specified in manual how many you can daisy together, it's not really your fault, within reason.

If you linked a 1/4 mile of them together to light a drag strip, I'd say that's crossing the reasonableness line, but I don't think eight quite puts it to that point.

These days, the ballast cost more than the LED elements and it's common for them to skimp out on ballast components.

 

[mweisslasvegas]

Thank you gentlemen!

 

[AC\DC]

Buy two new ones and then back charge your card if the dick salesmen give you trouble

 

[AC\DC]

In this led industry you take a huge chance of buying crap. I stick with Name brands. But that’s a gamble since Costco sell one of the cheapest crap ever FEIT

 

[garbo]

In this led industry you take a huge chance of buying crap. I stick with Name brands. But that’s a gamble since Costco sell one of the cheapest crap ever FEIT

We had a contractor install over a hundred fairly high end 2 by 2' LED luminares in drop ceilings during a remodel. They were purchased at a big supply house. In less then a year at least a dozen failed under warranty. Also a few covers were cracked. When they contacted the supply house they said the cheating china company that made them went out of business. Contractor had to remove luminares from two small offices to replace burnt out units in hall way and a conference room. They purchased made in good old USA LED luminares to replace the ones they removed. Of course work had to be done on weekends.

 

[PaulWDent]

I bought several boxes of "Ecosmart dimmable" 1722XL candelabra type lamps to replace incandescents. They die like flies! As of this morning, about half had died in a year. Worse life than incandescents! Then today we had a severe thunderstorm. Even though the lights were off when there was a nearby crash of lightning, another 8 are now dead.
The problem is, they have zero built in transient suppression, which is really essential for semiconductors connected to dirty residential supplies.

 

[AC\DC]

We had a contractor install over a hundred fairly high end 2 by 2' LED luminares in drop ceilings during a remodel. They were purchased at a big supply house. In less then a year at least a dozen failed under warranty. Also a few covers were cracked. When they contacted the supply house they said the cheating china company that made them went out of business. Contractor had to remove luminares from two small offices to replace burnt out units in hall way and a conference room. They purchased made in good old USA LED luminares to replace the ones they removed. Of course work had to be done on weekends.

What led are manufactured here maybe assembled

 

[hillbilly1]

I installed a couple of $1200 Hubble wall packs several years ago, had to replace both of them in two years. Replaced them with China $120 equivalents, and those are still working after three years. Unfortunately Made in America doesn’t mean good quality anymore. It just means you pay more for the same poor quality.

 

[letgomywago]

I installed a couple of $1200 Hubble wall packs several years ago, had to replace both of them in two years. Replaced them with China $120 equivalents, and those are still working after three years. Unfortunately Made in America doesn’t mean good quality anymore. It just means you pay more for the same poor quality.

That's 100 percent true for lighting products and cars and any other cut throat mass produced products.

 

[AC\DC]

the only thing is Hubble will be around for warranty vs fly by night China.

 

[letgomywago]

the only thing is Hubble will be around for warranty vs fly by night China.

Still if there's no labor warranty from them it's a wash

 

[hillbilly1]

the only thing is Hubble will be around for warranty vs fly by night China.

Out of 160 of the China wallpacks and UFO high bays I’ve installed, I’ve only had two failures. You have to watch out for super cheap Chinese fixtures though, the company that I previously worked for installed a bunch of real cheap 1000 watt equivalent UFO’s that had a 100% failure rate in the first six months, they gave $35 a piece for them, and expected them to last! The LED’s were overheating and burning out because of very little heat sinks. The manufacturer tried to claim it was because the building was not climate controlled and the fixtures were at the peak of the building. Building was a heavy equipment repair shop that had large roll up doors open all day.

 

[Flicker Index]

A far as I am aware, LED elements are not produced in commercial quantities in the US.
Most "US made" LED fixtures are as US Made as your Ikea furniture becomes US made the day it's put together on American soil.

The low failure rate could be because of a better design (lower LED element power density, higher temp ballast capacitors, larger heat sinks, etc) or the LED dimming ballast is linked to case temperature input and clocking down to maintain constant case temperature by changing input power, thus lumen output. People can sense flicker/sudden steps, but a smooth dimming down over several hours to 70% generally goes unnoticed. Fixtures that indefinitely operate at significantly reduced output except for the first 10 minutes or so can cause a false sense of quality and efficiency, because the light reading taken during the cold start is given credit for the output level, and the kWh consumption with the foldback activation lowers kWh usage long after the people taking light output readings are gone.

A quality design is something that lasts and do not fall back on thermal foldback as a matter of routine. This can be checked by checking relative light output with the light meter kept at the same spot at the moment the light is cold started, and after the light fixtures have been running all day long.

 

[Flicker Index]

Out of 160 of the China wallpacks and UFO high bays I’ve installed, I’ve only had two failures. You have to watch out for super cheap Chinese fixtures though, the company that I previously worked for installed a bunch of real cheap 1000 watt equivalent UFO’s that had a 100% failure rate in the first six months, they gave $35 a piece for them, and expected them to last! The LED’s were overheating and burning out because of very little heat sinks. The manufacturer tried to claim it was because the building was not climate controlled and the fixtures were at the peak of the building. Building was a heavy equipment repair shop that had large roll up doors open all day.

The style of fixture and marketing defines what reasonable applications are.

If you complain that your iPhone glitches out at 175°F, that's an unreasonable expectation.

If your dashcam advertises surveillance while parked, not being able to operate reliability at 175°F case temperature is a perfectly valid complaint, because that's a perfectly reasonable temperature inside a parked car in summer in the spot where a dashcam is usually mounted while keeping an eye on things around it. If they defer you back to some fine print in the manual saying maximum operating temperature of 100°F, that's a big sign of fail design.

 

[garbo]

I had so many failures with garbage cheating lack of quality control products from communist china that I go way out of my way to not purchase or use any safety or test equipment, tools or electrical supplies made there. Both of my flat screen tv's & cell phone are made outside if china ( I know probably b with most parts from china ). One of our JCI techs told me that a local pharmaceutical company banned any safety harnesses & associated equipment made in cheating china.

 

[jmellc]

I installed a couple of $1200 Hubble wall packs several years ago, had to replace both of them in two years. Replaced them with China $120 equivalents, and those are still working after three years. Unfortunately Made in America doesn’t mean good quality anymore. It just means you pay more for the same poor quality.

Hubble used to mean quality. Now it means high price, cheap quality. I've seen lots of trouble with Hubble.