Led Light Controller Inrush

[detroiit]

Hello,

We are using a 12 light controller which is wired up to a double pole 80amp breaker and correct gauge wire. My question is I am running 480w led fixture which comes with the HLG-480H-48 and driver spec notes that the cold start is 35amps. When powering up say 8-10 of these drivers/lights will the inrush current cause a problem with the breaker? I am assuming no as the breakers can withstand a quick influx of power before tripping. What I'm not able to find is the inrush is a couple ms on the driver but how many ms on a breaker before it trips from an in-rush. For instance if I have 10 drivers cold starting at 350amps does the breaker support the inrush time wise.

Any experience/thoughts?

 

[SceneryDriver]

You will likely be OK, as the impedance of the circuit conductors will somewhat limit the inrush spike. Mean Well's spec calls out the maximum number of HLG- power supplies you're supposed to place on a circuit; the data sheet calls for (2) supplies on a 16A 230V circuit (B-curve breaker) or (3) supplies on a 16A 230V circuit (C-curve breaker). Mean Well has the same guidelines for their HLG-600 series as well. I think you could extrapolate to 80A though it would probably be a good idea to email Mean Well with that assumption.

I've had to exceed those guidelines [(3) HLG-600's on a 120V 20A circuit] on a few occasions and it worked fine. Not what I wanted to do, but I had to work with existing supply circuits.

My larger question is how are you connecting the power supply leads to the circuit conductors (and protecting them) with an 80A supply?


-SceneryDriver

 

[detroiit]

@SceneryDriver Are you asking from the mean well drive AC side goes into a wago connector then the power cord goes into the wago then is plugged into the light controller.

 

[detroiit]

Unless you were asking how the light controller is wired? The light controller is an autopilot SX12 which has the wire from the panel ran to it using a terminal ring on the contacts.

 

[texie]

Unless you were asking how the light controller is wired? The light controller is an autopilot SX12 which has the wire from the panel ran to it using a terminal ring on the contacts.

I looked up this controller. Looks like a fire waiting to happen.

 

[detroiit]

I looked up this controller. Looks like a fire waiting to happen.

How so? How is it used then?

 

[texie]

How so? How is it used then?

Non standard 120/240 receps. Appears to have no OCPD for the receps. Has no NRTL listing.
It looks to me as if you could plug in a lamp into 1 of the receps. and the lamp zip cord would be protected at 80 amps.

 

[detroiit]

Non standard 120/240 receps. Appears to have no OCPD for the receps. Has no NRTL listing.
It looks to me as if you could plug in a lamp into 1 of the receps. and the lamp zip cord would be protected at 80 amps.

Like that Tex for real ? Well crazy it’s out there and I understand not all electronic devices need to be certified. But now since we opened this can of worms, what do you think of the Titan controller Helios 18 or Helios 6 in its place, (also has universal plugs) or better yet what would/can you recommend ?

 

[hbiss]

It's a grow light controller, what do you expect?

It says it does have a 30 sec delay between the three banks of four receptacles.

https://growershouse.com/downloads/dl/file/id/699/product/15203/autopilot_fuel_sx12_light_controller_instructions.pdf

-Hal

 

[hbiss]

what do you think of the Titan controller Helios 18 or Helios 6

I remember looking into those a couple of years ago for some poster here. From what I remember they aren't any better. It's really the same electrical design. But I think I do remember something about them offering a UL listed version.

-Hal

 

[detroiit]

@hbiss That is why I preferred the autopilot one over the titan just the inside look better built and cleaner install on the side with the contacts and relays. But as you said essentially both controllers same design, and yes titan has some that are UL listed. But now ya'll got me thinking really hard about using these controllers, should be fine no? Also for that controllers if it calls for #4 awg CU or #2AL and an 80amp breaker which is overkill for my setup (only going to be generating 20amps tops aat 240v) I could use #6 awg wire and a 50 amp breaker and should suffice yes?

Thanks.

 

[SceneryDriver]

@SceneryDriver Are you asking from the mean well drive AC side goes into a wago connector then the power cord goes into the wago then is plugged into the light controller.

It was addressed by others; there appears to be no OCPD in the controller. Your 18ga SJ power whips on the HLG power supplies are fusible links at 80A. It's also not NTRL-listed (UL being the most common NTRL). The receptacles aren't OK either. I wouldn't touch that thing with a 10ft stick.

No OCPD, dodgy receptacles, and no listing - if there's ever a fire or accident, you're gonna get dragged into it.



SceneryDriver

 

[detroiit]

@SceneryDriver The controller is here but I would like to take your advice and what would be the route you would go then here. With also have 120/240 receps. It’s crazy then so many people using this controller and the Titan ones then.

 

[detroiit]

@SceneryDriver How do you feel about this? ETL listed. 6-15 plugs and circuit breakers on both banks. Only thing is what about the power whips you mention?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/hydrofarmpubdocs/APT0082_Instructions.pdf (Autopilot ST8 comes in a ST12)

 

[SceneryDriver]

@SceneryDriver How do you feel about this? ETL listed. 6-15 plugs and circuit breakers on both banks. Only thing is what about the power whips you mention?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/hydrofarmpubdocs/APT0082_Instructions.pdf (Autopilot ST8 comes in a ST12)

That one looks like a much better choice. I would still check the ETL listing number to make sure the listing is legit. It wouldn't be the first product to claim a NTRL listing when it didn't have one; I'm the skeptical type though.

The receptacles are now protected within their ratings; much safer. When I referred to the 18awg SJ cable tails on the HLG power supplies in the first controller you linked to, there were no over current protective devices (circuit breakers). At 80A, those supply tails have a good chance of acting like fuses and melting instead of the 80A breaker tripping, if there was ever a problem. Your second controller protects the outputs safely.

I might be biased, but these seem rather costly for what amounts to some breakers and 120VAC-coil contactors in a box. You and your client might consider asking a UL508A panel shop to build something similar, and exactly what you need.


SceneryDriver

 

[detroiit]

@SceneryDriver I am thankful you pointed me into the right direction as I started to look up properly using contactors/relays and the importance of OCPD in conjunction with them and now makes perfect sense. I did a legit check through ETL and its there (I do this too always as so many companies front they have it).

So when using contactors, they don't know if a surge or a mishap occurs and will continue draw and that's why a problem occurs at the contactor or the device correct? As with a regular branch circuit in a home it's different because its communicating directly with the panel although an outlet COULD fry out, hence using a power strip or a current protection outlet which obviously is not typical throughout a home at every outlet.

Another thought I wanted to ask is that these drivers/ballasts or devices typically have over current protection built in within themselves does that not help prior to an OCPD kicking in so an issue doesn't happen at the power box? Unless they fail to do so is that why not a good option to rely on?

 

[hbiss]

You have to remember that these things started out being sold to people illegally growing pot. So there isn't much brain power going on there. Manufacturers could get away with anything and charge ridiculous prices because those people were making a fortune. And if the house burned down they would stand there and go duuuude, you see that?

-Hal

 

[SceneryDriver]

@SceneryDriver I am thankful you pointed me into the right direction as I started to look up properly using contactors/relays and the importance of OCPD in conjunction with them and now makes perfect sense. I did a legit check through ETL and its there (I do this too always as so many companies front they have it).

So when using contactors, they don't know if a surge or a mishap occurs and will continue draw and that's why a problem occurs at the contactor or the device correct? As with a regular branch circuit in a home it's different because its communicating directly with the panel although an outlet COULD fry out, hence using a power strip or a current protection outlet which obviously is not typical throughout a home at every outlet.

Another thought I wanted to ask is that these drivers/ballasts or devices typically have over current protection built in within themselves does that not help prior to an OCPD kicking in so an issue doesn't happen at the power box? Unless they fail to do so is that why not a good option to rely on?

Contactors are switches, with an electromagnet "flipping the switch" instead of your finger. Nothing more. They have no overcurrent protection function. They rely on the OCPD of their power source for protection, just like a switch in a residential lighting circuit.

The HLG- series have no overcurrent protection on the input (AC) side, and even if they did, how would that protect the branch circuit feeding it?

A side note, and not to confuse things:
The HLG- series do have current limiting on their outputs, which is very handy; they're Constant Voltage + Constant Current, which means they will supply a constant voltage (48VDC in your case) at any current up to rated current. If rated current is exceeded, they will limit the current by pulling down the voltage until current is within the supply's wattage limits.

Based on some of your questions and responses, I'd strongly suggest reading up on some basics of industrial controls, contactors specifically.

Contactor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also, study the circuit diagram on page 5 of the manual you linked to in a earlier post. What they've built is little more than a subpanel with switched branch circuits. It does nothing more than allow someone to turn on and off large lighting loads with a cheap 120V lamp timer.


SceneryDriver

 

[kwired]

You have to remember that these things started out being sold to people illegally growing pot. So there isn't much brain power going on there. Manufacturers could get away with anything and charge ridiculous prices because those people were making a fortune. And if the house burned down they would stand there and go duuuude, you see that?

-Hal

Probably not a great idea to try to open a lawsuit for damages to what is an illegal operation in the first place??

Add: I guess if you upset a big enough illegal operation they have their own judge, jury and executioners, which you would likely need to be more concerned with than an actual court of law

 

[detroiit]

@SceneryDriver Will do for sure thank you. I understand in the end your implying this could be built very easily. I really would like to but trying to piece it out properly. I have the schematic just from that diagram alone just need to wrap my head around it. Let's have a brew and guide me with one ...I'll sign a disclaimer as well.