LED light cover ceiling box

[brother]

Had a recent project where it was requested to have new lights installed. The existing lights was the old 10 inch circular fixture attached to the box. A new led (2ft or 3ft) fixtures were ordered. This is made to be attached to the ceiling via anchors, not to be supported by the box. No suitable opening is the back of the fixtures, as we had double checked with the foreman to see if he had given us the wrong fixtures from another job, (I have seen where the 2ft to 4ft have the prefab knock out opening to make the boxes accessible when covered).

The guy claimed he has installed several and have never failed a job and cover the boxes and just ran the wiring through the 1/2" hole and cover it. I told him that you have to have an opening to access the box since it is not supported by the box especially the bigger fixtures with more weight supported with anchors on the ceiling. He claimed he never heard of that and didnt the existing fixture cover the box without an opening??. I told him In fact some of the newer fixtures come with a prefab opening to knock out for that purpose. I couldn't recall the exact code article at the moment when he asked me, as I told him it has been in the code for years, not sure what code cycle it first came out. Somewhere in 410 about luminaries..


Have any of you run into the new LED 4FT , 2ft etc.. that were not made to be supported by the box and had the prefab opening? Not sure if UL had forced all manufactures to do it. The LEDs he gave didn't have it so we had to cut them and the fixture almost seem to narrow in my opinion to even get a suitable hole cut on it even the 4fts. Took a little longer on the job than expected than he planned.

 

[Fred B]

Had a recent project where it was requested to have new lights installed. The existing lights was the old 10 inch circular fixture attached to the box. A new led (2ft or 3ft) fixtures were ordered. This is made to be attached to the ceiling via anchors, not to be supported by the box. No suitable opening is the back of the fixtures, as we had double checked with the foreman to see if he had given us the wrong fixtures from another job, (I have seen where the 2ft to 4ft have the prefab knock out opening to make the boxes accessible when covered).

The guy claimed he has installed several and have never failed a job and cover the boxes and just ran the wiring through the 1/2" hole and cover it. I told him that you have to have an opening to access the box since it is not supported by the box especially the bigger fixtures with more weight supported with anchors on the ceiling. He claimed he never heard of that and didnt the existing fixture cover the box without an opening??. I told him In fact some of the newer fixtures come with a prefab opening to knock out for that purpose.

If you were to look at those the opening would be bushed and or designed to align and secured to an enclosure box. (Not free floating, unsecured.)

I couldn't recall the exact code article at the moment when he asked me, as I told him it has been in the code for years, not sure what code cycle it first came out. Somewhere in 410 about luminaries..


Have any of you run into the new LED 4FT , 2ft etc.. that were not made to be supported by the box and had the prefab opening? Not sure if UL had forced all manufactures to do it. The LEDs he gave didn't have it so we had to cut them and the fixture almost seem to narrow in my opinion to even get a suitable hole cut on it even the 4fts.

If this was a listed fixture and there is no instruction that allowed such modifications, you will have violated the listing and technically now have an unlisted product. The fixtures as such, the unit as a whole is listed within the limits established by mfg for modifications. (Usually performed KO's) Such modifications "could" open the door to liability if failure and damages were to occur (even if proof not present that the modification led to the failure).

Took a little longer on the job than expected than he planned.

Overall I'm having trouble visualizing your installation. The only ones I've come across that I think you have are surface mounted or hanging style LED or "shop style" lights. Designed to be used without a seperate enclosure or box.
These have always come with at least 2 KO on either end top or side. Cable enters directly into the fixture and serves as the "box" (no additional box would be required or used).
If your fixture has a seperate wiring compartment, the cable must be secured to the fixture, never seen one that allowed individual conductors to be introduced, or absent it being a cable assembly, cord or in conduit.

Only other ones have been larger ones that still had wiring to be done in a seperate enclosure and mounted to the enclosure but did have supplemental supports to help secure the weight of the fixture to the ceiling.

 

[infinity]

The conductors in the box need to be accessible after the new fixture is installed. Some fixtures have a 2" KO on there back for this purpose. I see no reason why you cannot punch your own access hole if needed.