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LED lighting and lighting contactors

Merry Christmas

KyleFowler

Member
Location
Maryville, TN
Occupation
Electrician
For the first time in a long time I had to buy a lighting contactor. My employer bought a surplus number of the "up to 30 amp per pole, up to 12 pole" GE/Seimens/Eaton style pre-LED rated version years ago and that surplus ran out. To my amazement / horror these contactors are now only rated for a measly 10 amp 120v / 3 amp 277v for LED loads. That's pretty worthless in the field. I've done alot of research and even Sq D with their up to 12 pole class 8903 contactors are only rated at 20 amp 120v apparently. There's no mention of even a LED rating above 120v for the 8903. What am I missing? I read the article Schneider put out in 2019 about LED's having huge but very short inrush currents so I get the problem but it seems no one is doing anything about making a product rated for real world applications. I just feel like I'm missing something
 

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winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
LED inrush is totally dependent on the driver circuit and input rectifier. The inrush could plausibly be anything from zero on up.

It would be nice if you could get higher ratings if the LEDs are documented to have low inrush.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
You might do better with D.P. contactors. Contact life can be increased by wiring them in series.

LED drivers are DC power supplies, with filter capacitors that have a high initial charging current.

That's why they take a moment to come on, and several moments to extinguish when turned off.
 

KyleFowler

Member
Location
Maryville, TN
Occupation
Electrician
You might do better with D.P. contactors. Contact life can be increased by wiring them in series.

LED drivers are DC power supplies, with filter capacitors that have a high initial charging current.

That's why they take a moment to come on, and several moments to extinguish when turned off.

I was thinking the same thing although I think that a 30 amp definite purpose contactor probably receives the same arcing that a 30 amp lighting contactor does. Really one is just shrugging and saying "it's rated for 30 amps and 480v volt" when asked if the definite purpose contactor is rated for the task and hoping an inspector approves the install based on a lack of testing. I believe the real problem is that even 10 years into LED's going mainstream there just isn't a testing and rating standard that reflects real world parameters. Below is a quote from Schneider:

"Complying with the standards

At the time of this writing, existing standards only include test requirements to certify contactors for use with conventional lighting loads, e.g. fluorescent, tungsten, incandescent, etc. The standards do not cover test requirements to certify contactors for use with LED luminaires. However, included in the UL 508 standard Table 46.1 and Section 61C, and in the NEMA 410-2015 standard are testing parameters and guidelines for LED coordination.

In North America, Schneider Electric has tested, for internal verification purposes, the design of its Class 8903 Type L/LX and Class 8903 Type S lines of lighting contactors against the UL and NEMA specifications. We have confirmed that our offers not only meet, but exceed the desired results based on the listed testing guidelines. This provides peace of mind to the installer and user of these models of Schneider Electric lighting contactors when using in conjunction with LED luminaires. This applies to any new installations or retrofit projects in commercial and industrial buildings."

It all sounds good until you read what the test consists of. Again another quote from Schneider:

" Conforms to NEMA -410 -2015 and UL508: Table 46.1 and Section 61C test procedures for LED loads up to 16 A at 120 V. Devices were tested to 20 A at 120 V and conform to the test requirements."

What a test, 16 amp at 120v and that's it! And apparently that's the only test that exists regardless of contactor size. About half my job is service work and some of that pertains to LED lightning additions or upgrades and I can tell you I've seen original installs by others that have 24 amps at 277 volt worth of LED pole lights on a 30 amp circuit being switched by a "up to 30 amp" contactor pole. The only thing the NEMA and UL testing does is push one into unknown and untested parts.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
. . . I can tell you I've seen original installs by others that have 24 amps at 277 volt worth of LED pole lights on a 30 amp circuit being switched by a "up to 30 amp" contactor pole.
And did they hold up or were they going bad?

The contacts in series trick really does help.
 

KyleFowler

Member
Location
Maryville, TN
Occupation
Electrician
And did they hold up or were they going bad?

The contacts in series trick really does help.

I don't know, I didn't disassemble the contactor, in that scenario we were seeing what lights could be added to a site. We also haven't had any call backs on any lighting contactors we've installed that were pre-LED rated and those have considerable loads on them as well. Time will tell on that one. What I've actually seen a real uptick in is wall light switch replacement due to arcing from LED's. Even 20 amp 277v switches are not immune. I was just surprised there isn't a rated solution to the situations I've described. It always seems in electrical when you research a problem the solution has already been thoroughly researched and resolved.

I'll remember the series trick, thanks for that. Also this experience talked me into buying an inrush amp meter (klein CL900). I haven't had a chance to test it on any significant LED loads yet. Hopefully it can record the very short amp spike of LED's. I think it might be handy too for other situations, again time will tell.
 
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