legal question

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gra electric

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whitney point, NY
hey gents. I have a situation that I would like to address to some of you other contractors. Back in the spring I was in contact with a couple who are building a new home. I went through much legwork of engineering the electrical portion of the home, plus put together a price for the installation. At that same time I was working with a builder on another project who was also going to work with me on the new home. The couple building a new home were told by the their mortgage company that a General Contractor would have to handle the contract end of things. Well the named General is the builder I worked with. Everyone was in agreement that I was to be the Electrical Contractor. I have several emails with the home owner stating that they want me to be the Electrician. Since the builder is an Omish company, it is very hard to get ahold of them. (No phones, and they have an answering service handle any incoming calls.)

The project broke ground today, and when I spoke face to face with the General on Friday, he said they would be ready for me in a month or so. I told him I would get the contracts to him early this week (and today is tuesday, and I was going to deliver them to him tomorrow). He said, "Ok, no hurry". Today I get a voice mail with him telling me since he has not received contracts from me yet, that they have found another electrician who is willing and eager to work with them, and don't bother sending out the contracts. He never gave me any deadline for contracts to be submitted, and since my schedule is not till the end of the month, I feel I am not in breach of any time constraints. As a matter of fact, I have had people sign a contract the day I started the work.

I am asking your guys opinions on whether I have a case to pursue in court if need be. I have spent many hours already planning this project that were included in the price of the house. I submitted a bid to the home owners prior to them signing a contract, and I think someone bid shopped on me. I guess what I am asking would the emails stating I am to be the electrical contractor be enough to hold up in court? Plus the Plumbing contractor has also been present when all parties talked about who was going to work on the project. If not, should I at least invoice the General Contractor for the time invested, and if he will not pay to put a lien on the house? I am not asking any hard advice, just wondering if anyone else has experienced something similar, and if so, what avenues did they pursue?

thanks in advance

Gerry
 
I'm no attorney but I don't see where you have leg to stand on unless you can prove that you already had a contract for the time you already put in. At this point you might do better to cut your losses and move on. Just my 2 cents.
 
I dont give the customer anything other than a price until I have a signed contract, if you drew up an electrical design and gave it to them without a contract you screwed yourself, I wouldnt waste anymore time on this project, just chalk it up to experience....
 
ultramegabob said:
I dont give the customer anything other than a price until I have a signed contract, if you drew up an electrical design and gave it to them without a contract you screwed yourself, I wouldnt waste anymore time on this project, just chalk it up to experience....
Click to expand...

I never gave them anything other than a price, and a draw schedule. It just seems to me that a verbal contract, or implied should come into play as far as getting the job back. I am not looking to sue for damages, just the right to do the project as agreed. It just doesn't make sense.:mad:

I think your right, it still sucks.
 
just to make you feel better maybe you should talk with the homeowner and let them know what kind of guy is building thier home and what type of issues they may run into down the road with this type of business scoundral. but that would just be your strike back to make yourself feel better. As far as getting the job back, why would you want to work with this rotten guy.
 
You have to decide whether it's worth getting an attorney to look at what you have, and mention 'loss of profit' to him.

You may have a case, and small-claims courts only use a preponderance of the evidence weighing (at least on TV.)
 
W/O getting into a lot of detail (there is a post somewhere on here w/ the extended version) I got hosed in a similiar fashion in late winter. Basically I was told that I had the job all the to the point when I was told I didn't. The basic outcome: sucks for me, get stuff in ink before any chickens are counted. Since there is nothing written/ signed those emails are up for interpretation.

You:" We had a contract"
Them:" We were in the bid process"
Judge:"Is there any formal contract?"
You:" No, but..."

At least this was the conclusion I came to.
 
I agree with the others, this is a loss for you. Just hearing about this t's me off!!!! That builder (Piece of junk) is the worse!!!! Maaaaaaaaaaaan they are lucky it's not me!!!!:mad:
You have builders doing this on a regular basis. They collect a number of estimates, pick the highest estimate (in this case your estimate is the highest) out of the pile. Submit their figures to the bank (or whoever's giving them money for the project)---using your estimate. Then hire the lowest bid.
 
update

update

I spoke with the "Amish" builder last night. They are actually menenites (sp?), which are a lot like Amish, but with a little more freedoms. I was pretty surprised when I got the call.

Anyway, he proceeds to tell me how upset he is, and doesn't know how to explain it to me. I told him, "first off, why are you upset at me? And second off, just say it!!"

He tells me he is worried because he has never been in this position before (project management) and he is nervous that I will stiff him with a huge bill, or bail in the middle of the project. I told him, the contract will provide all the info as to what I am to provide for this project, and what I will be paid, and then I asked him,"Whatever gave you the idea I would bail in the middle of the project?". He then begins to repeat something the plumber and I were discussing months ago on a different project we were all working on. The plumber is in his infancy stage of business, and he was having a hard time collecting from another project. The home owner/GC owed a large sum of money to the plumber, yet they demanded he drop everything and finish their project. I told the plumber, put in a stop work order, and start tacking on interest to the bill. Let the guy know in writing how he will get you back to work for him. Basically I told him if they don't pay, I don't come back!!
I guess he overheard what I said, and took it totally out of context. Once I explained what I was talking about, he now understood what I meant.
The ironic thing is this same "amish" builder just stiffed a customer. He was supposed to drywall, mud, tape, and paint a 3 unit apartment building. He claimed he didn't have time, and he was already over budget because of the owner/gc, and would not do any more work. He wanted a change order for more $. I can see his point because this owner likes to dream up stuff, and just have you do it. He always pays when he's supposed to, but now that he's had a chance to put a price on these jobs, he thinks everyone is ripping him off.

So that is the current situation. The "amish" builder, which is a pretty decent guy, told me he needs a little time to hash over our conversation. I know he will call back and sign a contract with myself. I have been through all this many times, and he needs someone willing to help him out. Plus I want the job.:grin:
 
your situation certainly is a bizarre one. So, does he actually have another EC or was he bluffing? Be sure your contract is very specific as to what you will be doing and what is and isn't included. I've found that by being "overly" specific in simple terms works very well in situations where before you do the work you can already smell a money fight.
If you made a print, make extra copies and have him actually sign the print and keep one each as part of the contract, explain specifically what is not included - ie- surface mounted light fixtures, vanity light fixtures, outside coach lights, etc. Don't leave anything out or it may be interpreted as included.

More than once I've had disputes with GC's about what's included and after reviewing the contract documents - opps - see right there where it says "HVAC wiring not included with this price at this time due to system not yet selected or designed" for example.
I've had jobs also run much better with GC's I don't really trust because they can't slide anything in and try to get you to do it for free.
 
Yeah, i been there....0

Yeah, i been there....0

If they GC is a Menonite (German Baptist) you should be fine. Most generally, they are very honest people. The church wont have them if not. If you dont cross them, they wont you.

If the GC is Amish....Well.....Good luck. There are real good amish, and there are real b@stards!!! Been there done that!!!!

My company does 60% of our buisness w/ Dunkards (Menonite..German baptist) folks, and they are the best paying, nice people to work with. GOOD LUCK!!!
 
A) No services provided, no contract signed, paper trail with promises of a contract and description of services to be provided. I don't think you would have a chance to collect any money.

B) Some services provided, no contract signed, paper trail with promises of a contract and description of services to be provided. There is a good chance to collect the money if this went to court.
 
'nother thought: can you demonstrate that you turned away other work in anticipation of this job?
 
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