Legalese and Contracts

[DWEames]

I'm a small contractor in New Orleans doing mostly Residential work. I'm in business for myself, and hoping to improve the professionalism of my company and contracting methods. In particular, I'm wondering how much is enough or too much to write on a bid. After starting up a company from scratch, I can certainly see the appeal of hiring on with an established company and working your way up through the ranks. Any advice or resources would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ptonsparky]

You really need to upfront the cost of a lawyer that is familiar with laws in your area. The visit may save you from some expensive learning experiences you do not need.

 

[Sierrasparky]

From experience to need to place all the legal mumbo jumbo as required by code and Law. Then you need to add some stuff to protect yourself.

I will say that the more you have the more your customer will be overwhealmed and likely not choose you when there is a choice.

 

[Sparkdoctor]

[h=2]American Institute of Architects - Official Site[/h]www.aia.org

 

[gadfly56]

[h=2]American Institute of Architects - Official Site[/h]www.aia.org

Besides being very contractor unfriendly, AIA is way overkill for residential work.

 

[petersonra]

If you can, try and get your lawyer to reduce the terms and conditions to a single page and print it on the back of your estimates and invoices, and reference them from the front side. That way it is difficult for someone to claim they did not know about them.

Most states are governed by some form of the UCC so a lot of the kinds of things you are probably worried about are already taken care of by state law, and things covered by state law often can't be changed by contract anyway.

 

[gadfly56]

If you can, try and get your lawyer to reduce the terms and conditions to a single page and print it on the back of your estimates and invoices, and reference them from the front side. That way it is difficult for someone to claim they did not know about them.

Most states are governed by some form of the UCC so a lot of the kinds of things you are probably worried about are already taken care of by state law, and things covered by state law often can't be changed by contract anyway.

What Bob said.

 

[Sierrasparky]

American Institute of Architects - Official Site

www.aia.org

Besides being very contractor unfriendly, AIA is way overkill for residential work.

Contractor unfreindly , Ain't that the truth.

Boy you are the first one to say this that I can remember. AIA is the worst. They want you to basically give you the keys , and your checkbook of your business to them and the owner. Yea and all you fools out there that sign the bottom line are really one step away from trouble. If it were not for the need to earn money the AIA would never get away with it. Contracts need to be Two sided not unfairly weighted to the benifits of the GC /Owner or Architect.

 

[gadfly56]

Contractor unfreindly , Ain't that the truth.

Boy you are the first one to say this that I can remember. AIA is the worst. They want you to basically give you the keys , and your checkbook of your business to them and the owner. Yea and all you fools out there that sign the bottom line are really one step away from trouble. If it were not for the need to earn money the AIA would never get away with it. Contracts need to be Two sided not unfairly weighted to the benifits of the GC /Owner or Architect.

It's all about protecting the owner, A&E firm, and project management team. All the liability flows down to the bottom tier sub contractor. For the privalege of installing a $5M fire alarm system in your $350M building, I take all the heat for the entire building if it all goes pear-shaped, even if it had nothing to do with my system. Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[goldstar]

For residential work I would start out with some simple forms from NEBS like this one :

http://www.nebs.com/nebsEcat/products/product_detail.jsp?pc=9250G#/

If there are any items you want to be specific about (like estimated electrical down time during service upgrade will be 4-6 hours) should be included in the body of the proposal. When you start doing commercial bid work you'll need a more elaborate form detailing exactly what you are contracting to do.

Just my opinion

 

[zbang]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Nolo Press (www.nolo.com). They print legal guidebooks that are often state-specific and have lots of free resources on their web site.

Disclaimer- they're not your lawyer and aren't giving you legal advice . You only get that by paying one.

 

[cadpoint]

A few active and not so active members have subscribed to

http://www.electricalflatrate.com/. If you read into this web page is describes some aspects
of what you ask about!

The Host of this web site also has various literature and other various free stuff on the front page.

I do agree with others in that a visit to a lawyer and reading up on commerce laws of your
State is very important.

Good Luck, Welcome to the Forum!

 

[renosteinke]

This is a good time for me to plug one of my favorite publisher: IICLE; The Illinois Institute for Continuing Legal Education.

IICLE publishes superb - if expensive - fully annotated and very readable books on nearly every legal topic you can imagine. They have at least five relevant to construction. I would start with this one: http://iicle.inreachce.com/Details?...&groupId=53b6364d-3e7e-465f-bef2-cba761ba236c

While the books are focused on Illinois law, the books will at least teach you what questions you need to ask and what issues you need to understand. I'd say they're "good as gold" in at least 48 of our 57 (HaHa) states.

The two exceptions are Louisiana and California. Louisiana - where the OP resides- was set up based on the French system; everywhere else at least started with English common law. California has drifted away quite a bit lately. Even in those places the IICLE books are an excellent starting point.

Less involved advice can be found from any of Mike Holmes' books ("Holmes on Homes") Mike brings a lot of common sense to the discussion.

If you're doing residential work you need to comply with the EPA's "RRP" paperwork as well.

 

[mgookin]

Lawyers are going to do what benefits the lawyers. They will make everything so complicated and confusing that it all comes back to them. They love to mitigate and litigate - that's how they make their money.

Buddy up with someone who does what you do but is 10+ years ahead. Buy him a case of his favorite beer and bend his year for a Saturday afternoon.