lets go over the numbers

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CopperTone

Senior Member
Location
MetroWest, MA
I priced a job for a new GC - custom kitchen remodel - high end work in a very expensive part of Boston. there are 2 guys who own this company - one guy I grew up with and the other guy runs the finances for the company. My "friend" calls me and says " well your numbers are high but we still are going to use you - my partner will be calling you in the next day or two" no call a week later - I email him for his complete company information and he gives it to me and also says "I'll call you later this week to go over the numbers"

They got rid of their last electrician because he was unreliable and didn't do great work. (I personally think the price refelcts that).
So, my question is - how do they know my price is high? Are they electricians? or are they just going by what the last guy charged - who is no longer working for them.

I could tell the job is going to be a PITA job - a designer is involved who omitted required receptacles and other things, etc. and I hear is a pita herself. 3rd floor no elevator, no parking on street - pay to park $40/day. old work recessed lights to be installed after sheetrock is up - GC provides all recessed lights, dimmers, electric heat, tstat, and all light fixtures.
My price reflects the job and the lack of mark up on material, and the general PITA factor. It is a good little job but I'm not haggling on this one. it already is a PITA.
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
I think there's friends, friends who are in business, and business friends, I'd treat them accordingly, but being down to "Business" is what it's all about!
 
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satcom

Senior Member
Some GC's get some pleasure playing games with Electrical contractors, they know they will cave when it comes to pricing, most of the other trades stand their ground with prices, so they can't play with them, your price is high is just part of the game playing.
 
George Stolz

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Recently, I had a bid that was right on. The GC came back saying we were way high than HackandJack Electric. It was nice having some confidence in my numbers, because I could look with square in the eye, without a trace of remorse, and said, "Then I guess we won't get the job."

"But you've got to come down! You've got to be competitive!"

"No, if I come down we're losing money on the job, and I'm not going to do that."

It drove him nuts. The GC and my boss are "friends", so my boss got an earful later on about how he shouldn't listen to me, because the GC had been in this business a long time and knows what things cost, and he needed to lower his price, and also said I was going to put him out of business for lack of business.

But the numbers don't lie.

Personally, I think it just drove him nuts that we've learned our lesson on that, the price is the price and we're not budging. If an EC wants to pay a customer when wiring a house, they're to be laughed at, not imitated.

BTW, oddly enough, my boss and the GC were featured in the first post of this thread. Another reason not to budge on a price: PITA factor, "friend" or not.
 
GUNNING

GUNNING

Senior Member
Location
Gainesville, Florida
Their are freinds and then there is bussiness. Dont confuse the difference.

Their are freinds and then there is bussiness. Dont confuse the difference.

I had a GC ask for and I gave him a price on standard square foot layouts of a kitchen, house, and room. He used me to get numbers to compare with what he was getting from other EC's. Have not heard from him since. No parking and up 3 floors, sounds like they forgot to factor in those things also. The price is what it is. You go into Walmart and start negotiating at the cash register? I would find about 10% in extras you forgot to add on, AND the time you are renegotiating, as an extra. Time is money and they are to wasting yours.
Why are they your freinds again?
 
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Rewire

Rewire

Senior Member
Location
Lake of the Ozarks
"Your price is high but we are going to use you anyway" just means you were lower than the other ten electricians they had look at the job and being low means you probably need the job and will probably give back a little more if pushed.
 
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charlietuna

Senior Member
"REAL" Friends are like "FAMILY" and Family and business don't mix! If your friend was looking out for "HIS" friend ---(?)YOU(?)-- he would have told you the other contractor's price and asked if you thought it was "in line"? My "real friends" in buiness and my "real friends" in everyday life don't ask me for a price, they tell me to do the job! I am hardheaded, and when someone tells me my price is high, i automatically turn away from the job. I never play games in estimating, i figure the job, go over it in my head,feel comfortable with the price and submit it! I know too many electrical contractors that make major errors in estimating and i work too hard to match a price to where i'm loosing money! I would walk away from this job!
 
Besoeker

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
We used to a lot of work for the water industry in UK - typically supply and installation of VFDs and associated switchgear. Bidding was fiercely competitive. As an old friend of mine would say, it's the contractor who screws up his pricing the worst who will get the job.
 
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IrishRugger

Senior Member
satcom said:
Some GC's get some pleasure playing games with Electrical contractors, they know they will cave when it comes to pricing, most of the other trades stand their ground with prices, so they can't play with them, your price is high is just part of the game playing.
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That is the most true statement I have ever heard. Alot of times I ask myself. "Why do I keep falling for that little game ? " I know better. How many other EC's in this forum fall in to that same trap? And for those of us that do find ourselves the victim of the game. Is it because of our own insecurities? Is it lack of experience? How do we correct this problem? By the the realization of self preservation? Or is it the simple matter of confronting the Boogeyman GC's and calling them out on the carpet?
 
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satcom

Senior Member
Besoeker said:
We used to a lot of work for the water industry in UK - typically supply and installation of VFDs and associated switchgear. Bidding was fiercely competitive. As an old friend of mine would say, it's the contractor who screws up his pricing the worst who will get the job.
Click to expand...

Yes, and then he thinks all the other trades will price their work, to make up for his lack of bidding experience.
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
CopperTone said:
My price reflects the job and the lack of mark up on material, and the general PITA Factor.
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The old PITA Factor, that's the problem. I have noticed that homeowners and GCs don't like it when you are smart enough to add in the PITA factor. For some reason people think that you should lug materials for half a mile and charge the same price as if you can back right up to a property and unload.
 
dduffee260

dduffee260

Senior Member
Location
Texas
A couple of jobs lately we were higher and got the job anyways. One job was 1.5 million and we were higher by $20,000 and they wanted to use us anyways. Another was about 150k and we were higher by $4,000 and they heard we were more polished and used us anyways. It does give us a sense of pride. It also makes me make sure I give the customer their money's worth when they do that.
 
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CopperTone

Senior Member
Location
MetroWest, MA
I spoke to the GC today - he didn't mention price but did give me changes from the designer already - PITA factor kicking in already - designer doesn't want shut off switches for dish or disposal, putting switches in dumb places, asking to float wires in wall because they can't decide on a wall scone height right now - now the fun begins
 
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bjp_ne_elec

Senior Member
Location
Southern NH
I think the comment "it' high" is probably just based on their ballpark figure they dreamed up, having no clue what it would really cost. Have you ever heard - "you're too low" - I doubt it. Stick with your price - friend or not - you're in it to put food on your table.
 
electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
CopperTone said:
I spoke to the GC today - he didn't mention price but did give me changes from the designer already - PITA factor kicking in already - designer doesn't want shut off switches for dish or disposal, putting switches in dumb places, asking to float wires in wall because they can't decide on a wall scone height right now - now the fun begins
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That's just the nature of this kind of work. Hopefully you figured enough PITA factor in.

I find that sometimes GCs who don't often work with designers don't understand how they work. Those of us that do get it will figure it into the price and of course the price will be way higher than the gc would normally see for the given scope of work. They usualy learn pretty quickly.
 
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