Life Safety Branch

[wader]

I have ben instructed by an AHJ to conect a pump (motor load) which provides fuel to a set day tanks for gen sets (our alternate source for emergency power at hospital)to the life safety branch of the emergency system. For some reason this just does not seam right.I cant see anything in 517.32(A)through(G) that would allow the conection of a motor load to life safety branch.(The day tanks have hand pumps too) :roll:
If the NEC is a minimum standard why would you want to add more loads to life safety? This to me seams to be less restrictive. I could maby see the AHJ saying something like they dont want automatic doors on life safety because they are equiped with breakaway hardware.But This???

 

[kqresq]

Re: Life Safety Branch

It seems to me that maybe having a reliable source of fuel for the device that supplies the EMERGENCY POWER to a hospital just might be an important thing, maybe even important to LIFE SAFETY!
In any instance, the AHJ, who has to be concerned with several codes(Uniform Building and Life Safety codes just to start)is the person who determines what amendments will be required in his/her jurisdiction for special circumstances such as these.

 

[wader]

Re: Life Safety Branch

One of my major concerns is that by placeing a motor load on life safety branch,the relayability of life safety branch may be degraded.Remember this is all you have left in order to get out of the building(eggress lighting).I think that may be why there is a hand operated pump on the day tanks.
IT IS LIFE SAFETY THAT CONCERNES ME!
The life safety branch is your line of defence.
And I for one would not like to be stuck in the midle of a pitch black building(except for the flames)not knowing how to get out.

 

[ed downey]

Re: Life Safety Branch

Wader,

Is The Emergency Load In The Building That Close To The Actual Generator Capacity That You Cannot Add A Small Motor To Pump Generator Fuel?

I am Not Sure I Understand Your Concern For A Small Motor Load.

 

[brian john]

Re: Life Safety Branch

I have been in more that one building where this was not done. During power outages the person that missed this in installation was cursed. The fuel pumps need to be on GENERATOR.

 

[roger]

Re: Life Safety Branch

Wader, although 517.32(E) doesn't specifically address the pump, it does indicate that the generator maintenance and self support be served
from the "Life Safety Branch". The "Critical Branch" can not be used and the Equipment Branch should not even be considered since in reality it is not part of the Emergency System.

This may be covered in more detail in NFPA 99 and mine is at work.

Roger

 

[wader]

Re: Life Safety Branch

ROGER: If you tare talking about 517.32(E)that would cover task lighting and recepticals at the gen set location.The suply pump is about 100' away (not in the same location as the gen set).
The recepticals are for working on the gen sets in emergency conditions and the lights so you can see(where the emergency hand pump is).

[ July 24, 2003, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: wader ]

 

[wader]

Re: Life Safety Branch

Brian:On the generator "YES". But what system?

 

[steve66]

Re: Life Safety Branch

Just to make sure we are on the same page, we are talking about a pump that fills a day tank, right? If the pump quits, the generator will still run for the 90 min required by life safety, and someone would get a low fuel alarm long before the day tank went empty.

I think wader is right in that the NEC 517.32 does not allow the pump to be placed on the life safety branch. Both the critical branch and equipment branch are allowed to have "selected equipment" placed on them which could include the fuel pump. However,you are probably better off to do what the AHJ wants. Just be sure the overcurrent protection for the pump is coordinated with larger life safety breakers so the pump doesn't take out other things.

 

[roger]

Re: Life Safety Branch

WADER, good news for you, you can point to NFPA 99 4.4.2.2.3. Equipment System for substantiation to your argument.

4.4.2.2.3.3AC Equipment for Nondelayed Automatic Connection Generator accessories including, but not limited to, the transfer fuel pump, electrically operated louvers, and other generator accessories essential for generator operation, shall be arranged for automatic connection to the alternate power source.

I see problems with Equipment Branch load shedding, but who am I to argue?

Now the inspector may use NFPA 110 1-4 Discretionary Powers of the Authority Having Jurisdiction

Roger

 

[caj1962]

Re: Life Safety Branch

Wader
I agree that the transfer pump for the day tanks should not be on the life saftey branch. I also agree with Roger that the pumps shall be on the equipment branch per NFPA 99.
However as far as getting out of the building and life safety being your last resort what about the defend in place criteria for a hospital.
Depending on the distance and size and also the load of your gen set you better have several guys ready to take a turn on that hand pump. Test it. Unhook the the electrical source to the transfer pumps next time you have a load test and see if you can keep the day tank full. You may have a big surprise.

Just my humble opinion

 

[wader]

Re: Life Safety Branch

caj1962:SUPER!!!!NOW SOMEONE IS STARTING TO SEE WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.
Roger: We will certanly do as directed by the AHJ but I still have my gutt fealing that tells me it just ain't quite right.(thanks for the NFPA 99 info)

[ July 24, 2003, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: wader ]

 

[caj1962]

Re: Life Safety Branch

Wader
NFPA 99 is the standard from which all of your gen set stuff should be inspected by as far as what is connected to what. The NEC in 517 referances this quite specifically. If you want more information on this I can supply you with a web site and information about specific training

 

[wader]

Re: Life Safety Branch

caj1962:Have NFPA 99 in hand as well NFPA 110.
Sure makes for good reading.
In clouseing I must say that the AHJ has made his ruleing but that does not mean he is right.
If we do not question something that does not seem right then I dont think we are doing our jobs.
Eaven an AHJ can revise there decission.

 

[caj1962]

Re: Life Safety Branch

Wader
I just found this in 110. Nails it right on the head as to where this has to be connected.
The best reference is NFPA 110, 7.12.5 which states: All ac-powered support and accessory equipment necessary to the operation of the EPS shall be supplied from the load side of the automatic transfer switch(es), or the output terminals of the EPS, ahead of the main EPS overcurrent protection to ensure continuity of the EPSS operation and performance.

 

[jhines]

Re: Life Safety Branch

Please refer to NFPA "health Care Facilities Handbook 4.4.1.1.8.1. Fuel pumps are listed to be on the Essential Electrical System.

 

[roger]

Re: Life Safety Branch

The question is what part of the essential system? The "Emergency System" or "Equipment Branch"?

As stated earlier, if you look at NFPA 99 4.4.2.2.3. "Equipment System" it states as follows in 4.4.2.2.3.3: AC Equipment for Nondelayed Automatic Connection

Generator accessories including, but not limited to, the transfer fuel pump, electrically operated louvers, and other generator accessories essential for generator operation, shall be arranged for automatic connection to the alternate power source.


The problem here is we have to go back to 4.4.1.1.3 and see that selective load shedding could be an issue. We would not be able to shed the whole "Equipment Branch" transfer switch if we were to feed the pump from the "Equipment Branch", this leads to some pretty expensive and creative controls.

The logical solution would be to feed the pump from the emergency system.

Roger

 

[caj1962]

Re: Life Safety Branch

Nothing says that the equipment switch has tobe a delayed conection. We use our energy mangement system to restart the selected motors