Light mounted 30 feet above a propane filling station no cover over the station installed earlier than 1990.

[sparky895]

My question, is there anyone out there that happens to have a 1987 or 1990 code book? I would like to know what is allowed on a light mounted above a propane filling station 30 feet up on a steel pole fed overhead from a building that is 30 feet away and was installed prior to 1991 at least. Also what is says about mounting to a pole with no hand hole (it is fed overhead and does not have any splice inside the pole). 410.30B in the modern book for the light pole hand hole, Hazardous location article for light above the tank. There is no ceiling of any sorts over the system. The pump and meter are in an enclosed box. The local inspector is calling me at the industrial plant on these items that were installed at least earlier than 1991 and was a replacement system for an older system than that. It would have been installed by a contractor at the time and inspected and approved by the city but so long people that would know all the details have since retired. I have talked to the previous electrician whom is retired and know it was done before his time here. Unfortunately i do not still have my books clear back to 1987.

Thanks,

Greg

 

[petersonra]

I would ask why the inspector is worried about something that is already there. Did you take out a permit to modify it in some way?

 

[sparky895]

I would ask why the inspector is worried about something that is already there. Did you take out a permit to modify it in some way?

Bob,
We have a new industrial inspector that is under the impression that everything in the plant should be up to current code. So far the oldest i had to prove was up to code at time of installation was 1968. Yes it has been seen by electrical inspectors for 30 plus years along with fire Marshall annual inspections, insurance company annual inspections and OSHA occasional inspections he is trying to call this as a code correction. As you mentioned if we were to accommodate any of his requests it would be a modification and then require complete update and plan review. As a new inspector that just moved from a local contractor to inspector he is trying to make a name for himself i guess, but either way i am doing my diligence.

 

[rc/retired]

I think propane is heavier than air & sinks. Other than the hand hole, I don't believe there's a problem.
And I'm not sure if there's a problem with the hand hole

 

[sparky895]

I think propane is heavier than air & sinks. Other than the hand hole, I don't believe there's a problem.

You are correct, propane is heavier than air, it isn't a problem other than proving to the new inspector what the code was when it was installed. He recently changed from a field electrician for a contractor to electrical inspector for the city. Making a name for himself i believe, i had one correction i had to show him it was legal in 1968. I like to have my ducks in a row before i present to the head inspector on this one because if he finds a way to make us update there have been many changes since late 80s early 90s, he is quoting articles from the 2021 code book.

 

[petersonra]

Most cases inspectors only have authority to inspect new work. It might touch existing work that has to be modified but I don't see how he can inspect anything he feels like without a search warrant.

You need to get out of the loop and send this one to your boss to resolve.

 

[sparky895]

Most cases inspectors only have authority to inspect new work. It might touch existing work that has to be modified but I don't see how he can inspect anything he feels like without a search warrant.

You need to get out of the loop and send this one to your boss to resolve.

.
I agree, his job is to inspect new work. He does not necessarily agree with that, we have had that talk. I will be discussing this call with his boss whom has been copied on the last email my inspector sent. I don't need to step back, i know way more about this stuff than my boss. Do i need to do this research? Not really, but his boss didn't recognize the seal off in the picture the inspector took, as the inspector also said there was no seal off. So i figured i would present everything to show them i am willing to go the extra mile as needed. i expect i will have this inspector for years to come so the point needs to be made. If i have to i will go to the State inspector whom would be over his boss head but don't think i will need to go that far. Part of why i want the old book is simply to show them that 2 of the articles they are quoting did not even exist in the 1990 code. It is just me your right i don't really have to take it this far, in fact he did not write an actual correction notice.


Thanks,

Greg

 

[petersonra]

It is not about who knows more about the code at this point, but about what authority the inspector actually has versus what he seems to think he has. For that kind of issue it is probably best that you let someone else deal with it. Like the company lawyer. That would seem to require passing it up the line starting with your boss.

 

[sparky895]

I would ask why the inspector is worried about something that is already there. Did you take out a permit to modify it in some way
The inspector is new to the inspector industry fresh from a big union constructions shop. They get paid by the hour on an industrial permit and i think is trying to justify his job. No there have not been any modifications to that system. In fact we have done very little new or modified installs in the last year. His opinion is that he has that authority, like i said, i will be chatting with his boss on this one and know i am in the right and will not have a problem resolving it. The reason i want to pull up the old code is more about me than him. I want to include that in my discussion just because. Unfortunatly i purged all my old code books a couple years ago. I kind of like digging into the old stuff anyway.

Thanks,

Greg

 

[sparky895]

It is not about who knows more about the code at this point, but about what authority the inspector actually has versus what he seems to think he has. For that kind of issue it is probably best that you let someone else deal with it. Like the company lawyer. That would seem to require passing it up the line starting with your boss.

Point taken, if i need to i will take it to the boss. I will talk with his boss and try to resolve it first though. They are not threatening to red tag or anything like that at this point it is more of a discussion. I will take your advice if i need to. He hasn't even written an official correction notice.

 

[MTW]

NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE 1990 By Nfpa | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE 1990 By Nfpa at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Plenty more where that came from.

 

[sparky895]

NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE 1990 By Nfpa | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE 1990 By Nfpa at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Plenty more where that came from.

Thanks I will check that out.

 

[ritelec]

My question, is there anyone out there that happens to have a 1987 or 1990 code book? I would like to know what is allowed on a light mounted above a propane filling station 30 feet up on a steel pole fed overhead from a building that is 30 feet away and was installed prior to 1991 at least. Also what is says about mounting to a pole with no hand hole (it is fed overhead and does not have any splice inside the pole). 410.30B in the modern book for the light pole hand hole, Hazardous location article for light above the tank. There is no ceiling of any sorts over the system. The pump and meter are in an enclosed box. The local inspector is calling me at the industrial plant on these items that were installed at least earlier than 1991 and was a replacement system for an older system than that. It would have been installed by a contractor at the time and inspected and approved by the city but so long people that would know all the details have since retired. I have talked to the previous electrician whom is retired and know it was done before his time here. Unfortunately i do not still have my books clear back to 1987.

Thanks,

Greg

2017 410.30B was 1987 410-15 and basically reads the same
2017 Hazardous Location Luminaries 501.130 AB was 1987 501-9 ab and also basically reads the same.

1987 has no drawings and height limitations that I can see

 

[growler]

I would like to know what is allowed on a light mounted above a propane filling station 30 feet up on a steel pole fed overhead from a building that is 30 feet away and was installed prior to 1991 at least. Also what is says about mounting to a pole with no hand hole (it is fed overhead and does not have any splice inside the pole). 410.30B in the modern book for the light pole hand hole, Hazardous location article for light above the tank.

As far as the hand hole goes. What would be the point if fed from overhead?
About the light? Is it in a hazardous location? I don't think so but check with the Fire Marshal. The opinion of the Fire Marshal is pretty much law. But a light 30 ft. high in free air?

 

[Propane]

Not sure what propane tank you are using. Quality steel has been having issues with odorant fade in brand new tanks, be careful.

 

[steven765]

Oh man this is like the inspector in killington vt. Ranting about everything must be fixed and current. I wasn't there asked the lady. Was this guy like 25, wearing a short sleeve plaid button down. just graduated university probably driving with a frat sticker in the back window, calling out every little thing? She's like were you there? I'm like i know the type.