I have a customer who keeps blowing out bulbs in almost all of her recessed can lights. I thought at first it was just a bad bulb but over the past year she has burned up more bulbs than average and even bulbs that I have replaced 2 weeks ago have burned out. I just went out there a couple days ago and found that her bulbs are getting a sticky brown burnt substance, (almost like that of a burned up transformer) around the base of the bulb on the threads where it screws into the socket. This house was built in 1975 and is about 10,000 square feet. There are a lot of these can lights and problems with almost all of them. Has anyone else come accross this before. Anytime she takes a bulb out to change it they bust of in the socket and I have to go out there and get it out. What is causing these bulbs to burn out so fast and what is causing the tar like substance to form on the base of the threads. Thanks for any input. Don
light socket problem
- Thread starter hastime
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karl riley
Senior Member
Re: light socket problem
What testing have you done? What voltage do you measure at the lamps? Have you checked voltage across both hot legs at the panel, with loads on?
Karl
What testing have you done? What voltage do you measure at the lamps? Have you checked voltage across both hot legs at the panel, with loads on?
Karl
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: light socket problem
How close is this customer to a substation or voltage regulator? We have a 13.2kV wye system but our substation transformers are set for an output of 13.8kV. Since we are permitted a variance of 5% from nominal, we can go almost twice as far before being 5% below nominal. People who live close to our substations and voltage regulators need to use 130 volt lamps but their motors last forever.
How close is this customer to a substation or voltage regulator? We have a 13.2kV wye system but our substation transformers are set for an output of 13.8kV. Since we are permitted a variance of 5% from nominal, we can go almost twice as far before being 5% below nominal. People who live close to our substations and voltage regulators need to use 130 volt lamps but their motors last forever.
Re: light socket problem
The known fact is excessive heat. Excessive heat is due to lack of dissipation.
Has insulation been added since 1975? Often blown in insulation will cover the housing preventing the heat to dissipate.
The tar substance could very well be the insulation frying.
Use the flourescent module lamps, and clear the insulation away from the housings.
There may already be enough damage to require replacement.
The known fact is excessive heat. Excessive heat is due to lack of dissipation.
Has insulation been added since 1975? Often blown in insulation will cover the housing preventing the heat to dissipate.
The tar substance could very well be the insulation frying.
Use the flourescent module lamps, and clear the insulation away from the housings.
There may already be enough damage to require replacement.
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Re: light socket problem
The known fact is excessive heat. Excessive heat is due to lack of dissipation.
I have had customers with similar problems, did PQ studies as well as installation reviews and found in most cases it was HEAT.
Did have one customer that was losing all times of ballast tubes and incandescent. Found the energy management system instead of just turning off the lights at 10:00 PM was turning off and on the lights 60 times an hour from 10:00 PM till 6:00 AM.
The known fact is excessive heat. Excessive heat is due to lack of dissipation.
I have had customers with similar problems, did PQ studies as well as installation reviews and found in most cases it was HEAT.
Did have one customer that was losing all times of ballast tubes and incandescent. Found the energy management system instead of just turning off the lights at 10:00 PM was turning off and on the lights 60 times an hour from 10:00 PM till 6:00 AM.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: light socket problem
The two biggest problems that we have even with newer homes is one over watting (new word) the fixtures. this will burn the insulation off the wire and damage the fixture.
the other is bulbs CHEAP BULBS!!!
they dont last and if they are in any type of fixture that will be vibrated by any thing IE... doors shutting paddle fans kids jumping on the upstairs floor and blowing the bulbs downstairs. this has been a big hassel as we get many call back because of this.
The two biggest problems that we have even with newer homes is one over watting (new word) the fixtures. this will burn the insulation off the wire and damage the fixture.
the other is bulbs CHEAP BULBS!!!
they dont last and if they are in any type of fixture that will be vibrated by any thing IE... doors shutting paddle fans kids jumping on the upstairs floor and blowing the bulbs downstairs. this has been a big hassel as we get many call back because of this.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: light socket problem
First I would use a digital multimeter to check for voltage at the fixtures. If this is satisfactory, then like Bennie said I would drop a couple of cans and look for insulation that may be too close to the cans. This definitely sounds like a 'heat' problem. Also as Bennie has stated, some or all of these fixtures may need to be replaced, as the heat will have created a situation making the problem even worse over time.
Good luck, let us know what the results are.
Pierre
First I would use a digital multimeter to check for voltage at the fixtures. If this is satisfactory, then like Bennie said I would drop a couple of cans and look for insulation that may be too close to the cans. This definitely sounds like a 'heat' problem. Also as Bennie has stated, some or all of these fixtures may need to be replaced, as the heat will have created a situation making the problem even worse over time.
Good luck, let us know what the results are.
Pierre
Re: light socket problem
The can lights are regular incandescant that take Par30 bulbs and the tar like substance is only on the threads of the bulb and the socket that it screws into. How would the heat dissapation problem cause the problem on the socket itself. Do you think that if it is overheating that the oils in the 2 metals are causing the tar like substance and fast burnout of the bulbs. I checked for voltage and was getting 120 volts. I understand that overheating can cause the bulb to burn out faster but the fact that when a bulb does burn out after a couple of weeks you can't even unscrew it because of that brown epoxy type buildup on the threads cause it to be 'glued' into the socket and the bulb breaks. Now that I think of it, it happened to their microwave light bulbs as well, so I do not think its a heat dissapation problem. What else could it be causing this? This is a multi-million dollar home and I need to come up with some explanation but have never run accross this. I appreciate any ones continued responses to this problem. Don
The can lights are regular incandescant that take Par30 bulbs and the tar like substance is only on the threads of the bulb and the socket that it screws into. How would the heat dissapation problem cause the problem on the socket itself. Do you think that if it is overheating that the oils in the 2 metals are causing the tar like substance and fast burnout of the bulbs. I checked for voltage and was getting 120 volts. I understand that overheating can cause the bulb to burn out faster but the fact that when a bulb does burn out after a couple of weeks you can't even unscrew it because of that brown epoxy type buildup on the threads cause it to be 'glued' into the socket and the bulb breaks. Now that I think of it, it happened to their microwave light bulbs as well, so I do not think its a heat dissapation problem. What else could it be causing this? This is a multi-million dollar home and I need to come up with some explanation but have never run accross this. I appreciate any ones continued responses to this problem. Don
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: light socket problem
Exactly what do the bulbs that have burned out look like? Do they have a yellow/white powder look inside them? This could just be the end of the life for the sockets. If the scoket/lamp contact is poor there will be excessive heat produced at this point. If there is enough heat the solder on the bottom of the lamp will melt allowing air into the bulb. The filament will burn up in air resulting in the yellow/white powder inside the bulb. If this is the case, replace the sockets.
As others have suggested there may be other causes for the excessive heat and they all should be investigated as there is a potential fire hazard here.
Don
Exactly what do the bulbs that have burned out look like? Do they have a yellow/white powder look inside them? This could just be the end of the life for the sockets. If the scoket/lamp contact is poor there will be excessive heat produced at this point. If there is enough heat the solder on the bottom of the lamp will melt allowing air into the bulb. The filament will burn up in air resulting in the yellow/white powder inside the bulb. If this is the case, replace the sockets.
As others have suggested there may be other causes for the excessive heat and they all should be investigated as there is a potential fire hazard here.
Don
Re: light socket problem
I cant see any yellow dust or anything in the bulb but on the threads of the bulb (neutral) and in the light socket itself, they are brown, almost like a laquer type substance and that is whats 'glueing them into the sockets'. It has happened to their microwave light sockets and bulbs as well so I know its not just the recessed can lights. On some of the bulbs the whole entire filament assembly falls from its connection to the base. Don
I cant see any yellow dust or anything in the bulb but on the threads of the bulb (neutral) and in the light socket itself, they are brown, almost like a laquer type substance and that is whats 'glueing them into the sockets'. It has happened to their microwave light sockets and bulbs as well so I know its not just the recessed can lights. On some of the bulbs the whole entire filament assembly falls from its connection to the base. Don
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