Light switch change problem

[Deetz]

Had a call from a buddy that just bought a house and his wife wanted to change out the light switches. He called and asked for help. I came over and I removed a couple of the switch covers only to find they were right on a 2x4 and no box and really small solid 22 gauge wire. I figured it was a low voltage system but never ran into this before. the box downstairs has a bunch of relays. Just thought it would be interesting to see who else has run into this, and what years they used to do this.

 

[infinity]

I had seen a similar system used around here decades ago when my friend bought a house. It used relays and LV wiring to the switch locations. The fix was to snake a new cable to each switch and eliminate the LV control completely.

 

[ptonsparky]

Highly reliable system.
Dang women always wanting to change stuff.

 

[infinity]

Highly reliable system.
Dang women always wanting to change stuff.

Yup once they want some WiFi switches you're rewiring the whole house.

 

[Fred B]

Had one that was much bigger. Had a master switch to controll all the lights from one location as well as the individual switches. Was a very interesting remodel trying to work them all around. Turned out way less intrusive to leave them and update the switches with all new momentary contacts, to look "nicer".

 

[Electromatic]

I've run in to a few of these. A couple of members here really tout them if you get them going about it. They are kind of cool, and, overall, seem to be pretty reliable for what they are. I would guess maybe late 60s to late 70s for most of the original installs. The biggest pain working on them is the rat's nest that the relay box becomes over the years. One unique thing about the system in the pic is that it appears some of the wires are actually labeled!

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

Ya, installed many of those systems back in the day they were for the rich and famous. Untill you have to go up in the attic to trouble shoot.
I always ask why in the attic. They always seam to start failing right after they added insulation. Then we had to move them. We even installed them in churches. Much nicer installations.

 

[gar]

211009-1009 EDT

Those do not appear to be GE RR relays. GE relays will have 3 or 5 wires coming from the coil area.

Thus, these relays appear to be some form of a stepping relay. Not a good choice. The gang box is not a GE RR relay box.

GE RR relay low voltage control wiring should never be run to switch boxes without being in metallic conduct. This is for mechanical protection.

The advantages of a GE RR relay system are:

Simple parallel wiring of low voltage wires to all switches.
Very low AC switched voltage drop.
High current capacity.
Bi-stable relay operation.
State of relay remains when power is lost.This results from a snap blade switch function.
At switch location direction of switch lever motion tells you whether you are turning on or off a circuit.
With added logic you can do many different functions. A single control switch can simultaneously turn on many relays, or many off, and yet
an individual relay can be controlled by only some other single switch or switches.
Programmed operation of relays allows for various light sequences.
Relatively immune to electrical transient problems.
less wire bulk in switch box locations.
All relays can be in various gang box locations. Makes testing and changes easier.
In small homes only a few relays might be used. Like for outside lights.
In larger homes of businesses all circuits might be RR controlled.
With the small control wires and simplicity of wiring switches one can easily have a control switch on one side of a wall for turning on lights
when entering a room, and on the other side of the wall for turning off lights as one leaves the room. But still have on-off capability on both
sides of the wall. And if there is more than one door to a room there is no problem having an on-off switch at every door, and other locations.

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