Lighting a Family Room

[mkgrady]

I'm getting ready to wire a new family room addition. The room will be about 25 by 25 feet with a sloped ceiling with two gable ends that will be painted white. Originally they figured on general lighting being 4-6 recess cans but they really don't like the look of recess on a sloped ceiling. Unless the recess have a gimbal mount the light doesn't even point down except for ones made to do that. I have only seen them in 6" recess. I don't know anybody that wants 6" recess any more.

They are asking me if they can install some lighting on two sides of the room where the wall meets the sloped ceiling and have light shine up towards the peak to light up the ceiling. They are picturing the fixtures being hidden behind some type of cove moulding so they would not be visible from the floor. Anybody have any suggestions?

 

[gadfly56]

I'm getting ready to wire a new family room addition. The room will be about 25 by 25 feet with a sloped ceiling with two gable ends that will be painted white. Originally they figured on general lighting being 4-6 recess cans but they really don't like the look of recess on a sloped ceiling. Unless the recess have a gimbal mount the light doesn't even point down except for ones made to do that. I have only seen them in 6" recess. I don't know anybody that wants 6" recess any more.

They are asking me if they can install some lighting on two sides of the room where the wall meets the sloped ceiling and have light shine up towards the peak to light up the ceiling. They are picturing the fixtures being hidden behind some type of cove moulding so they would not be visible from the floor. Anybody have any suggestions?

We did something like this for our bathroom remodel. If you had to get up in the middle of the night we didn't want to be blinded when going about your business. We had the building construct an "L"-shaped soffit with the vertical leg on the room side. He put an open fluorescent fixture in the soffit. The light bounced off the ceiling without putting daggers in your eyes and it worked well.

Depending on the activities they intend to engage in, this might not provide enough illumination even if you wrap the room with fixtures all around. But then again, it might. You'd have to find some way to model how much reflected light would reach the floor or working height based on the light source, beam spread, and surface reflectivity. Maybe your lighting supply house has a program to do this?

 

[GoldDigger]

If you are in a state or locality with energy efficiency requirements any form of indirect lighting may have serious problems meeting those energy efficiency standards.
You can use energy efficient fixtures, but the overall wattage required to get the light level you need may be too high.

 

[mgookin]

And you better have really good carpenters, lumber and drywall crew because that's going to light up every imperfection. We call it "lamping the walls" in high end construction where you temporarily put a light source right against a wall or ceiling surface to mark imperfections for the trades to correct their minor imperfections.

I've never been a fan of track lighting but for this application I think I'd see what's out there that might fit the room.

 

[gadfly56]

And you better have really good carpenters, lumber and drywall crew because that's going to light up every imperfection. We call it "lamping the walls" in high end construction where you temporarily put a light source right against a wall or ceiling surface to mark imperfections for the trades to correct their minor imperfections.

I've never been a fan of track lighting but for this application I think I'd see what's out there that might fit the room.

We must have lucked out on the carpenter and dry wall crew.

With a 12.5 foot throw, I'd be concerned with hot and dark spots all over the place. I'm thinking that some high end pendant fixtures are the real solution here.

 

[mkgrady]

And you better have really good carpenters, lumber and drywall crew because that's going to light up every imperfection. We call it "lamping the walls" in high end construction where you temporarily put a light source right against a wall or ceiling surface to mark imperfections for the trades to correct their minor imperfections.

I've never been a fan of track lighting but for this application I think I'd see what's out there that might fit the room.

This is seeming to be pretty hard to do what they are asking for all the reasons stated. Thanks guys.

I have seen track lighting used this way and it does light up a ceiling but the light is very uneven when standard heads are used. Not sure if that is what you meant.

 

[GoldDigger]

This is seeming to be pretty hard to do what they are asking for all the reasons stated. Thanks guys.

I have seen track lighting used this way and it does light up a ceiling but the light is very uneven when standard heads are used. Not sure if that is what you meant.

What I read from that was the likely unevenness of the lighting on floor and furniture when downward directed track lighting was used from a low ceiling. A lot depends on the beam angle of both the bulbs and the fixtures used.

 

[gadfly56]

What I read from that was the likely unevenness of the lighting on floor and furniture when downward directed track lighting was used from a low ceiling. A lot depends on the beam angle of both the bulbs and the fixtures used.

That's why I suggested pendant (fluorescent-type) fixtures. Maybe something like this.

 

[JFletcher]

I'm getting ready to wire a new family room addition. The room will be about 25 by 25 feet with a sloped ceiling with two gable ends that will be painted white. Originally they figured on general lighting being 4-6 recess cans but they really don't like the look of recess on a sloped ceiling. Unless the recess have a gimbal mount the light doesn't even point down except for ones made to do that. I have only seen them in 6" recess. I don't know anybody that wants 6" recess any more.

They are asking me if they can install some lighting on two sides of the room where the wall meets the sloped ceiling and have light shine up towards the peak to light up the ceiling. They are picturing the fixtures being hidden behind some type of cove moulding so they would not be visible from the floor. Anybody have any suggestions?

I'd ask them. We still do 5/6" cans, much more than 4" ones. Nothing wrong with gimbal lights. If the ceiling has a steep slope, you may want higher wattage lights on the upper 2 or 3 cans, or a separate dimmer switch for them. They have gimbal LED trims for 5" cans:

http://www.cooperindustries.com/con.../5-6-inch-led-adjustable-gimbals/_851514.html

imho, track lighting in such an application looks hideous. Uplighting from a soffit gets more exponentially more complicated if the ceiling isnt a rectangle; light/dark spots are a real problem. Besides, most people want to light the room, not the ceiling.

Pendants can look good tho I wouldnt want a long drop anywhere near a ceiling fan or register; the slightest air current will cause swaying.

What about nice wall sconces, like you'd see in a hotel?

 

[kwired]

This is a job for a lighting design specialist.

Some installers are maybe closer to being called that then others though.

 

[Electric-Light]

This is a job for a lighting design specialist.

Some installers are maybe closer to being called that then others though.

This leans towards the somewhat artistic side of lighting design given that its easier to describe this part with words and visuals than numbers.

And you better have really good carpenters, lumber and drywall crew because that's going to light up every imperfection. We call it "lamping the walls" in high end construction where you temporarily put a light source right against a wall or ceiling surface to mark imperfections for the trades to correct their minor imperfections.

I've never been a fan of track lighting but for this application I think I'd see what's out there that might fit the room.

The hardness of light source has a lot to do with this. Hard light such as sunlight on a clear day brings out surface imperfections much better than diffused light such as sunlight on overcast day. A light meter is not an imaging sensor. You could point it towards a window and it couldn't tell a normal glazing from a privacy glass.

Clear lamps like MR16 halogen is 'harder' than a BR reflector lamp. The level of hardness depends on how well is diffused. I am not sure what unit is used to measure this and it is not part of lamp specs, so it is kind of trial and error. It wouldn't show up on a light meter reading, but it will show up on a photographic image. Optical pieces such as lens, diffusers, and textured reflectors consume some lumens as well as directionality which costs lumens per watt as well as target efficiency rating.

The strange, multi-edged shadows you may see at gas station is a characteristic of LED lighting system that do not use a frosted diffuser to avoid optical losses.

CRI, vertical and horizontal plane foot candles and conventional lighting design address this descriptively like I am, but I don't know what measurements are used.

The diffuser, and to smaller extent, the texture of reflective coating and the design of the solid state fluorescent lamp element plays a role.

 

[JFletcher]

The following pic is a rather humorous however real depiction of what can happen when lights are haphazardly applied to a ceiling:

http://www.someecards.com/news/so-that-happened/lights-look-like-boobs/

With soffit lighting, if you dont run the light source from wall to wall, or within inches of it, you WILL have dark spots, and the customer WILL complain.

We almost always let the customer spec lights. If they arent happy with the light, the shape of the fixture, the color, etc, it's on them. We can relamp, change dimmer settings, adjust height if a pendant, but it about kills me to just get a new fixture up, wipe off the fingerprints, and the customer goes "that's satin nickel...I thought I ordered brushed nickel...that looks hideous, take it down". :slaphead:

If your customers are like that, do what kwired suggested: get a lighting specialist.

 

[brantmacga]

Lighting a Family Room

For recessed lighting in vaulted ceilings I use Juno IC928 or IC926 slope cans. The LED variant will run you about $260/ea, and the incandescent $60/ea. The trims for both are another $40/ea. I won't even offer the option of regular recessed fixtures. That's what everyone does around here and it looks terrible. You can order the LED model in various color temps also.

I've also installed LED tape behind the crown on the gable walls and that is a nice effect, but gives you no floor lighting.

I just roughed in a cabin for a buddy last weekend with an exposed beam vaulted ceiling, and we are going to install track lighting where the ceiling meets the wall on both sides end-to-end and switched receptacles for floor lamps. There is also a beam running across the middle of the room, and I'm going to put a track across that. It's to highlight the exposed beams though; I couldn't imagine why you would want to highlight a drywall ceiling.

My suggestion to them would be to use sloped cans, and do the LED behind some crown on the gable walls like I mentioned earlier and that would give them enough of an ambient effect on the vault.

On the tape, look at Nova Flex LED, and specifically the variable temperature with a dimmable driver. It really helps set the mood for time of day. I've got some going up in a week or so in a double-tray ceiling. If I can remember I'll come back and post a short video here showing you what it is.

Here is a pic of that tray ceiling. Those will be 18w LED recessed. We just put some IC926 LED cans in also in a vaulted ceiling. I'll try to get you a pic of those as well.

 

[mgookin]

...

Here is a pic of that tray ceiling. Those will be 18w LED recessed. We just put some IC926 LED cans in also in a vaulted ceiling. I'll try to get you a pic of those as well.

Buddy of mine did a 3 story addition at his house; on the 2nd floor he has barrel vaulted ceilings with Venetian plaster and that same molding setup you are showing with indirect lighting. It is incredible. The dimmers had extra wow to the ambiance.

 

[brantmacga]

Buddy of mine did a 3 story addition at his house; on the 2nd floor he has barrel vaulted ceilings with Venetian plaster and that same molding setup you are showing with indirect lighting. It is incredible. The dimmers had extra wow to the ambiance.

It's definitely one of my favorite effects. Years ago i would do it with rope lighting or fluorescent. Now with the variable temp LED's, you can dial in the exact color you're looking for. A friend of mine did a job with color changing LED cove lighting and color changing LED recessed lamps, but it really looked silly. That's what their customer wanted though.


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[GoldDigger]

It's definitely one of my favorite effects. Years ago i would do it with rope lighting or fluorescent. Now with the variable temp LED's, you can dial in the exact color you're looking for. A friend of mine did a job with color changing LED cove lighting and color changing LED recessed lamps, but it really looked silly. That's what their customer wanted though.


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Color changing as in cycling by itself? That does sound horrible.

 

[kwired]

Color changing as in cycling by itself? That does sound horrible.

Was in Best Buy recently and noticed those, can't remember the name/brand.

I also used the restroom and noticed that in a store that is dedicated to selling technology they did not have a single automatic flush valve, sink faucet, towel dispenser, or hand dryer. They must not sell those items and aren't that interested in them:?

 

[mgookin]

Color changing in outdoor spaces when they change v e r y slow can be tasteful. Indoors I can't imagine it.

 

[stevenje]

Color changing as in cycling by itself? That does sound horrible.

Unless your in Vegas!

 

[brantmacga]

Here is that ceiling finished...... its variable temperature LED, and you manually adjust via a wall controller to the temp you want; soft white or bright white.

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