lighting "approved for use in showers"

[markjkubicki]

At one point I had an issue installing a specified fixture within a shower because it was not specifically: "approved for use is showers". A straight forward "wet location" rating had been rejected.

As I recall, the fixture could not have within the shower area any conductive surfaces connected to ground (ex: a metal trim could not be in-touch with the (grounded) fixture housing unless there was an insulating gasket in-between.
Preemptively, sensing that this may become an issue on a current project, I've been searching for that code. I have found multiple fixtures published as "arrpoved for use in showers", but have not been able to find an actual code requirement...

Does anyone else have any experience with this?
Any comment on any relevant code? (My hunch is that if it does exist, it may be 'Health Life Safety' (on sim.), not NEC.)

With appreciation in advance,
m.

 

[Kansas Mountain]

I'd love to see a response on this as well. I have a coworker that ran into that same issue on an inspection one time. She doesn't remember the jurisdiction. The only way I can see that it would be enforceable is if the jurisdiction has amended their code adoptions to include the shower "listing" or they are willing to pay change orders to force compliance. I'm also familiar with fixtures that have "non-conductive" material options like HE Williams' 4DR or Gotham's 6" EVO Shower. But as far as I can tell, it's not a real listing.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If the light fixture has a wet location sticker than the inspector is absolutely wrong unless it is a hanging fixture- I doubt that would have a wet location sticker

(A) Wet and Damp Locations.
Luminaires installed in wet or damp locations shall be installed such that water cannot enter or accumulate in wiring compartments, lamp holders, or other electrical parts. All luminaires installed in wet locations shall be marked, “Suitable for Wet Locations.” All luminaires installed in damp locations shall be marked “Suitable for Wet Locations” or “Suitable for Damp Locations.”

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Recessed cans are not in wet locations it is the trim that must be marked wet location. I think all shower trims have gaskets.

 

[infinity]

If the recessed fixture is not subject to shower spray it can be damp location rated.

 

[GoldDigger]

Since AFAIK there is no "listing" for showers, is the inspector just looking for mention of showers in the manufacturer's literature?
Or is he using this as a way of completely banning fixtures over showers?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Since AFAIK there is no "listing" for showers, is the inspector just looking for mention of showers in the manufacturer's literature?
Or is he using this as a way of completely banning fixtures over showers?

Right but there are trims called shower trims.


The following is not directed at Wayne because I know he is aware. It is for those who are learning
There are also trim that are damp rated that aren't called shower trims. In most cases, as Rob stated, the can is in damp location. The definition for damp does not say it cannot have any water hit the trim.

Location, Damp.
Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to moderate degrees of moisture. (CMP-1)

Location, Wet.
Installations underground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather. (CMP-1)

 

[markjkubicki]

If the light fixture has a wet location sticker than the inspector is absolutely wrong unless it is a hanging fixture- I doubt that would have a wet location sticker

agreed on the NEC code; my hunch is that it is not there, but in another (parallel) code (such as health life safety). It is not unusual to find contradictions / ambiguities between NFPA - IFC/IBC - ICC ...

(FYI, there are many 'exterior' pendants with a wet location rating)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

agreed on the NEC code; my hunch is that it is not there, but in another (parallel) code (such as health life safety). It is not unusual to find contradictions / ambiguities between NFPA - IFC/IBC - ICC ...

(FYI, there are many 'exterior' pendants with a wet location rating)

Pendants become an issue in bathroom and must be kept 3' from the edge of the shower of tub or it would need to be 8' above the shower or bathtub rim.

410.10(D)
Bathtub and Shower Areas.
A luminaire installed in a bathtub or shower area shall meet all of the following requirements:
(1)
No parts of cord-connected luminaires, chain-, cable-, or cord-suspended luminaires, lighting track, pendants, or ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be located within a zone measured 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally and 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower stall threshold. This zone is all-encompassing and includes the space directly over the tub or shower stall.
(2)
Luminaires located within the actual outside dimension of the bathtub or shower to a height of 2.5 m (8 ft) vertically from the top of the bathtub rim or shower threshold shall be marked suitable for damp locations or marked suitable for wet locations. Luminaires located where subject to shower spray shall be marked suitable for wet locations.

 

[infinity]

Pendants become an issue in bathroom and must be kept 3' from the edge of the shower of tub or it would need to be 8' above the shower or bathtub rim.

I agree, pendants even if listed for wet locations still are not permitted in the 3X8 shower zone.

 

[markjkubicki]

Right but there are trims called shower trims.


The following is not directed at Wayne because I know he is aware. It is for those who are learning
There are also trim that are damp rated that aren't called shower trims. In most cases, as Rob stated, the can is in damp location. The definition for damp does not say it cannot have any water hit the trim.

1) THNX !!

Pendants become an issue in bathroom and must be kept 3' from the edge of the shower of tub or it would need to be 8' above the shower or bathtub rim.

agreed (completely); i meant only a simple response to "unless it is a hanging fixture- I doubt that would have a wet location sticker" -which seemed to imply that there are no wet location hanging fixtures. my referance was to "(typically) exterior" pendants (decorative, utilitarian, or otherwise; in both residential, commercial, and industrial scales. no malice intended)

 

[Jpflex]

Last time I checked nec codes for bathrooms somewhere I came across a code that said in bathrooms, a receptacle (lighting etc) cannot be located within 6 feet of the edge of a Water shower basin or similar. So even though a receptacle box and lamp holder may be listed for wet locations this has given me confusion As to how lighting is often placed directly above showers?

 

[infinity]

Last time I checked nec codes for bathrooms somewhere I came across a code that said in bathrooms, a receptacle (lighting etc) cannot be located within 6 feet of the edge of a Water shower basin or similar.

Can you provide a code reference? This is not in the NEC so is it a local amendment?

 

[Jpflex]

Can you provide a code reference? This is not in the NEC so is it a local amendment?

I’ll try to find it in nec at work today hopefully I can find it

 

[icemanch]

This thread is a bit old but I've seen this question in multiple places and wanted to address if from someone who has been working in the lighting field for the last 10 years.

As pointed out the NEC has requirements on how close a hanging fixture can be to a shower. A recessed light does not fall under the same restriction. However, a recessed light has to be damp or wet rated for the location as appropriate.

That is the ONLY requirement from NFPA 70 specific to a fixture installed in a shower.

There are listing requirements in NFPA 70 that a light fixture be listed to meet UL 1598/CSA 22.2. UL 1598/CSA 22.2 cover the construction of the fixture including bonding all of the conductive parts of the fixture to ground.

There is also a requirement in NFPA 70 to connect a metal fixture to the grounding system.

All of that being said a Non-Conductive or Dead Front trim is NOT required by NFPA 70. In fact my opinion is that a dead front really doesn't add any extra safety unless you completely distrust the installer of the light fixture or the ground system.

Another point to add is that there are several jurisdictions that are requiring Non-Conductive/Dead Front trims for light fixtures installed in a shower. I know Washington State is requiring it but, I'm not sure of where else.

 

[Jpflex]

This thread is a bit old but I've seen this question in multiple places and wanted to address if from someone who has been working in the lighting field for the last 10 years.

As pointed out the NEC has requirements on how close a hanging fixture can be to a shower. A recessed light does not fall under the same restriction. However, a recessed light has to be damp or wet rated for the location as appropriate.

That is the ONLY requirement from NFPA 70 specific to a fixture installed in a shower.

There are listing requirements in NFPA 70 that a light fixture be listed to meet UL 1598/CSA 22.2. UL 1598/CSA 22.2 cover the construction of the fixture including bonding all of the conductive parts of the fixture to ground.

There is also a requirement in NFPA 70 to connect a metal fixture to the grounding system.

All of that being said a Non-Conductive or Dead Front trim is NOT required by NFPA 70. In fact my opinion is that a dead front really doesn't add any extra safety unless you completely distrust the installer of the light fixture or the ground system.

Another point to add is that there are several jurisdictions that are requiring Non-Conductive/Dead Front trims for light fixtures installed in a shower. I know Washington State is requiring it but, I'm not sure of where else.

Do you know where in

 

[Jpflex]

Do you know where in

Do you know where in NEC it is stated recessed lights are exempt from distance requirements from a shower?

 

[infinity]

Do you know where in NEC it is stated recessed lights are exempt from distance requirements from a shower?

Post #9.

 

[Jpflex]

Post #9.

But that post doesn’t show the exemption. It only shows the code stating that cord connected lighting must be 3 feet away vertically and 8’ high from the edge of the shower or bath tub

I remember wiring bathroom and the entire house from scratch and running into this code before. This code brought confusion, as I don’t recall seeing any exemption nor did we have recessed lights. Therefore, I installed a light 3 feet away and 8 feet high so no light directly over shower

 

[Jpflex]

2) says wet or damp lighting located OUTSIDE the shower dimensions such as 3’ away and 8’ ft high but what is allowing within the shower on directly on top?