Lighting at son’s school

[Rahim84]

Okay so I’m going to try to explain this the best I can. I pull up to my sons school and the handyman is trying to wire the outside walkway lights to a timer switch model # HET01 (I’ll attach a pic from google). He ask me to help because it’s not working right and he knows I do electrical work. So far he removed the regular light switch and now just has the cable coming out the wall. A single cable with what appears to be #18 conductors 24v kinda stuff.

So I see the 4 wire cable but at the panel it’s two 2 wire cables which I circled in blue, so I physically trace it out and see a splice in the attic. The ground is just cut off, the neutrals are spliced together. The red from the original cable is spliced to the red on one of the new cables and the blue is spliced to the red on the other new cable. So they come to what appears to be a relay, small transformer and into a two pole breaker in the panel. With regular #12’s actually going to the lights.
What I don’t understand is the point of this system because #1 the lights were being controlled by a regular switch
#2 with the entire switch taken off( wires spread apart like the pic shows) the lights were on. Even when I tried to make them trip or anything by placing them all to ground and even just touching them all to each other the lights stayed on. I got 21.1 V from Red to white. And from blue to white.

I just need some direction on what’s the point of all this and what direction I should take to get those lights on a timer


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[ptonsparky]

Those are low voltage latching relays. They won’t work with that timer.

 

[Rahim84]

That’s good to know, cuz that’s what I told him. Just based off what I saw.


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[Rahim84]

But what’s the point of them? If they weren’t like on a timing system or set to a motion sensor or something of the sort. Seems extra since they were wired like a regular switch.


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[ptonsparky]

Some one at the school is attempting work they have no clue about. Not even close.

 

[ptonsparky]

But what’s the point of them? If they weren’t like on a timing system or set to a motion sensor or something of the sort. Seems extra since they were wired like a regular switch.


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Normally a momentary switch would be used. They are old enough that motion sensors weren’t used. They were pretty good systems and lasted a long time.

 

[Rahim84]

I can’t understand the point , if you’re still turning them on and off at a single switch location manually.


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[ptonsparky]

That low voltage wire is a lot cheaper to run then conduit. I can sneak it in about anywhere.

Parallel switches any where in the building could be used to turn them on or off. Additional switching would be a piece of cake. No 3 or 4 ways.

That system could be set up relatively easily with modern controls.

 

[Rahim84]

Ok I could see that.
So from the switch to the panel I have about 120 ft. So To put those lights on a timer switch would I be better off just getting rid of the relay and transformer. Running some MC and settings them up on a switch like the one he bought?
Because that system is ahead of my time


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[ActionDave]

I can’t understand the point , if you’re still turning them on and off at a single switch location manually.


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That is a GE RR 7 relay system. They are rock solid, flexible, and expandable. You can switch any light from anywhere just by triggering the right relay. I'm a big fan.

There are still parts readily available. The relays are about sixty bucks, but they last forever. Until just very recently it was not unusual to find them used in commercial lighting applications, most all of them have switched over to digital controls.

 

[packersparky]

Ok I could see that.
So from the switch to the panel I have about 120 ft. So To put those lights on a timer switch would I be better off just getting rid of the relay and transformer. Running some MC and settings them up on a switch like the one he bought?
Because that system is ahead of my time


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Maybe you can find a low voltage timer with momentary contacts to replace the switch. That would be the best solution, if you can find one.

 

[gar]

180214-2351 EST

Rahim84:

That installation is a mess.

ActionDave is correct. Those are GE RR relays.

As a power switching device these are a much better switch for this type of application than is a solid-state device in my opinion.

On state full load voltage drop way below a volt. A solid-state switch is most likely moderately above 1 V. 1 V at 20 A is 20 W.

An RR relay is mechanically bi-stable meaning no power is required to hold it in its last set state.

RR relays are not much bothered by lightning or other large transient voltages.

I suggest that you keep the present relays, but get a decent box to put them in, and rewire in a neat fashion. GE may still make a gang box of reasonable size.

People here can help you on how to make the control circuit to these relays do whatever is wanted.

.

 

[ptonsparky]

One each of even these very basic controls interfaced with what you have would open up a whole world of options.

 

[Rahim84]

Ok thanks for all that, very informative. Do you have a part numbers for those that I can look up


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[ptonsparky]

Ok thanks for all that, very informative. Do you have a part numbers for those that I can look up


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What I have pictured are fairly inexpensive in themselves but would take some time to learn each of their programming. They are not plug n play nor did I include all the misc extra stuff that may be needed.

They are from automationdirect.com and can be found on their website. Search for C-more Micro & CLICK.

 

[kwired]

If you want occupants to have the ability to override the timer and want it in place old switch was located then you need to rewire things or find a class 2 control.

If you want the timer to take over controlling the lights and basically no override except by authorized individuals - place the timer back near where the relay is presently located.

 

[Rahim84]

If you want occupants to have the ability to override the timer and want it in place old switch was located then you need to rewire things or find a class 2 control.

If you want the timer to take over controlling the lights and basically no override except by authorized individuals - place the timer back near where the relay is presently located.

I was just thinking that I could probably just put a timer back at the panel where the relay is, like you’re suggesting.



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