Lighting Help!?

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trigger

Member
Need Advise on a retro-fit for area lighting in a ploe barn..
Seventy 400 watt HPS High Bays are being used in this area now..
Some are 15' off the ground and others are 25'..
The building is 900' long and 60' wide. No walls, just roof..

The new owners are asking for a "white" light..and the famous demand "as cheap as possible"..

I have used MH lamps inplace of Sodium lamps before in another case but I am looking for another solution...Sooo do they make a Flouresent Retro??

Any advise will be so HELPFULL!

Thanks!

Trigger.
 
kbsparky

kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
Using 6 tube 4-foot linear flourescent hi-bay fixtures would offer lots of "white light" and substanital energy savings over the HPS fixtures. Over time, one of the best alternatives available.

But they ain't cheap. ;) The link provided is only for the fixtures, bulbs and other accessories are additional But for the quantity you want, you can save some $$$ by ordering skid packs of 20 fixtures each.

Shipping is pre-paid on orders larger than $250, something you won't have a problem with.

E-LN1F6X54U_LG.JPG
 
mdshunk

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
I don't think you could get any cheaper and whiter than 400W MH fixtures, in that case. The fluorescent's would be awesome, but they put in that "cheap" requirement, which rules them out for the most part.
 
L

LawnGuyLandSparky

Senior Member
mdshunk said:
I don't think you could get any cheaper and whiter than 400W MH fixtures, in that case. The fluorescent's would be awesome, but they put in that "cheap" requirement, which rules them out for the most part.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't you think the owners already expect the need to replace the fixtures? I'd try to sell them on the new, and introduce a pie chart or bar graph comparing the energy use of the MH's over the T8's.
 
N

nakulak

Senior Member
dude its a pole barn.

the only kind of pie they are interested in is apple pie, pumpkin pie, etc





:grin:
 
mdshunk

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Wouldn't you think the owners already expect the need to replace the fixtures? I'd try to sell them on the new, and introduce a pie chart or bar graph comparing the energy use of the MH's over the T8's.
Click to expand...
I'd try too, but considering the application and the original requirements, I think that the chances of getting that sale are slim. On the other hand, I wonder why they're even considering it in the first place? Doesn't really add up in my mind yet. When I hear "barn" and "fixtures" in the same sentence, that normally means use what you already have until it's within an inch of its life.
 
kbsparky

kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
coulter said:
kb -
Do you have any references for the fluorescent fixtures having substantial energy savings over HPS? I have not seen any data that would substantiate this claim - could be there is new technology out there.

carl
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Ummm .... 400 watts VS 324 watts = energy savings? That's 5320 watts alone for the listed project of 70 fixtures. Do you object to my using the term substantial?

And, in addition to that, I have successfully substituted the linears for older fixtures and reduced the total quantity of them further adding to the energy savings.
 
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coulter

Senior Member
kbsparky said:
... Do you object to my using the term substantial? ...
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No. I didn't ask my question very well. I have not worked with this stuff for a lot of years.

I think what I'm looking for are photometric(?) charts - should show lumens/watt. For a given/required lighting level, one lays out the height, spacing for a chosen fixture. Power requirements are now known.

I'm thinking the lighting technology with the lower energy requirements for the same lighting level is the most energy efficient.

When I was doing this 20-25 years ago, a lot of the service stations had 3bulb, 8ft, single pin, VHO(?) fluorescent fixtures. LPS was suddenly the rage - lots of light, for low energy costs. That didn't last too long - the color really sucks. So we changed them out for HPS. Color was a better, energy costs were more. But the oil company majors still didn't like the color, so we installed MH. Energy costs went up.

As I recall, at that time, for a given light level, the energy costs, cheapest to most expensive, was LPS, HPS, MH, Fluorescent.

What I don't know is if the technology has changed.

No fair saying, "We can cut your light bill to 80%. Of course you only get 70% of the light level."

I read this over and it doesn't sound very clear. Feel free to translate, correct as needed to make sense.

carl
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
coulter said:
What I don't know is if the technology has changed.
Click to expand...

T-5 and T-5 HO florescent is now replacing metal halide and provides more and 'better' light for less power.

The other great thing is they are instant on so they can be used with occupancy sensors providing further cost savings in many occupancies.
 
G

gndrod

Senior Member
Location
Ca and Wa
coulter said:
No. I didn't ask my question very well. I have not worked with this stuff for a lot of years.

I think what I'm looking for are photometric(?) charts - should show lumens/watt. For a given/required lighting level, one lays out the height, spacing for a chosen fixture. Power requirements are now known.

I'm thinking the lighting technology with the lower energy requirements for the same lighting level is the most energy efficient.


Feel free to translate, correct as needed to make sense.

carl
Click to expand...

Hi Carl,

Your thinking translates well. Using manufacturer's photometrics involves a lot more than source lamping as you know. Depending on the workplane task visibility needed is the key to beam spread balance(point method) or cavity reflectance (zonal-lumen method)and maintenance. The coming technology is here, its a matter of how much is in the clients pockets. There are LED arrays that can at least double maintenance figures of any lamping that is on the market today.

Seoul Semi-conductor is cranking out LEDs that have a 260 lumens per watt (LPW) output, compared to an HO T5 (appr. 87 LPW) is a lot but the cost is still way up there. The Hibay equivalent LED's are just coming on the market now...so there is another option. The color aesthetics are low because of high lighting temp scales in the blue region 6500-9000k range that may be an issue. But then where could you find barn lamping with the low energy consumption and optimum illuminosity coverage. rbj
 
H

hamel1

New member
Location
connecticut
Hi, check with your utility company as they may have a program for replacing their existing lights and pay an insentive to do it. A 4 lamp t-5 fixture uses 228 watts and gives much better light regardless of which lumen bulbs you use.
 
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