lighting in class I , Div II

[upstatecontractor]

I was contacted to install lighting in a room where they repair furniture, after they repair the scratches on the furniture they spray it with some type of chemical or poly, I was informed by thr owner that this room was classified as ClassI DivII. Is this correct? and what type of fixtures are permitted in this are. The ceilings are over 10ft. Thanks in advance

 

[rbalex]

First, the location should be "properly identified." [Section 500.4(A)] This means that the Group and "T-Code" of the materials that are used should be identified, as well as the location's Class and Division.

The classification should be per Article 516. I suspect there will be some Division 1 as well as 2.

Someone that actually knows how to classifiy locations should do it.

 

[dicklaxt]

Follow what rbalex stated above for starters and get a letter containing the rules(or both) for your project authored by the owner or his representative that also outligns just how fancy/detailed they want to go...There are many different fixtues styles ,voltages,types etc available

Class I Div 2 is normally a vaporproof/dustproof fixture and Div 1 is an Explosion proof.

If your client has a preference follow his lead,get a Cooper Crouse-Hinds,Appleton,Killark catalog for some of your research,they are 3 of the bigboys in the industrial market,,,there are others. Crouse-Hinds has tutorials in their catalog for selection and design.

You may also look at some of the speacialized lighting products offered by paint booth lighting speacialists.

An IES manual will tell you what lumens/footcandles/lux are recommended for this lighting application.

dick

 

[sgunsel]

You did not include many relevant details. But assuming they are using more than an occasional spray can, the entire room, or at least the portions of it within 20 feet of spraying if in a very large area, are Class I, Division 1. If they do not have appropriate ventilation and overspray collection/control, they have other fire safety issues that must be addressed. Article 516 spells out the electrical classified areas pretty well, but you should review NFPA 33 for related safety issues that must be addressed.

If there is a fire, you can be assured that the insurance companies will try to collect from anybody who did any work in the area at any time. Your ignorance is money in their pockets. In my experience, electrical devices and/or wiring are very frequently cited as "the most probable cause" of most fires other than obvious arson cases, which are rare in industrial facilities. After all, you are a professional and "should have known" what needed to be done. The profit from installing a few lights probably won't cover the cost of a new plant.

Good luck. It's not all that complicated, but don't guess. Make sure you notify the company of any known or suspected deficiencies.

 

[gadfly56]

Follow what rbalex stated above for starters and get a letter containing the rules(or both) for your project authored by the owner or his representative that also outligns just how fancy/detailed they want to go...There are many different fixtues styles ,voltages,types etc available

Class I Div 2 is normally a vaporproof/dustproof fixture and Div 1 is an Explosion proof.

If your client has a preference follow his lead,get a Cooper Crouse-Hinds,Appleton,Killark catalog for some of your research,they are 3 of the bigboys in the industrial market,,,there are others. Crouse-Hinds has tutorials in their catalog for selection and design.

You may also look at some of the speacialized lighting products offered by paint booth lighting speacialists.

An IES manual will tell you what lumens/footcandles/lux are recommended for this lighting application.

dick

Class I: flammable vapors
Class II: combustible dusts
Class III: ignitable fibers

Division 1: always present
Division 2: present on occasion or if equipment fails or something breaks

 

[dicklaxt]

Class I: flammable vapors
Class II: combustible dusts
Class III: ignitable fibers

Division 1: always present
Division 2: present on occasion or if equipment fails or something breaks

What are you getting to here did you not finish your post?

dick

 

[gadfly56]

What are you getting to here did you not finish your post?

dick

I was trying to point out, without beating anyone over the head, that your explanation of Class and Division wasn't quite correct.

Class I Div 2 is not "vaporproof/dustproof" per se, it describes a location where flammable vapors are occasionally present. Equipment listed for this location is not necessarily listed for Class II, Div 2.

Div 1 does not refer to anything "Explosion proof", it indicates that the hazard is always or usually present. Equipment listed for Class III Div 1 would not be suitable for a location where hydrogen or acetone vapors were usually found.

Due to the expense involved in getting equipment listed, manufacturers frequently get items listed for multiple hazardous locations, but not always.

 

[dicklaxt]

I was trying to point out, without beating anyone over the head, that your explanation of Class and Division wasn't quite correct.

Class I Div 2 is not "vaporproof/dustproof" per se, it describes a location where flammable vapors are occasionally present. Equipment listed for this location is not necessarily listed for Class II, Div 2.



I wasn't explaining Class and Division, the word "fixture" should have steered the intent.

I was saying that Div 2 requirements was a Vaporproof Fixture and by the nature of the beast it is also DustProof so a Vaporproof/Dustpoof fixture would be the choice.Division 1 type fixtures are Explosionproof.

dick

 

[gadfly56]

I was trying to point out, without beating anyone over the head, that your explanation of Class and Division wasn't quite correct.

Class I Div 2 is not "vaporproof/dustproof" per se, it describes a location where flammable vapors are occasionally present. Equipment listed for this location is not necessarily listed for Class II, Div 2.



I wasn't explaining Class and Division, the word "fixture" should have steered the intent.

I was saying that Div 2 requirements was a Vaporproof Fixture and by the nature of the beast it is also DustProof so a Vaporproof/Dustpoof fixture would be the choice.Division 1 type fixtures are Explosionproof.

dick

Fixture or not, you still don't get it.

Div 2 requirements are not a "Vaporproof fixture". Div 2 means that the hazard is occasionally present.

"Division 1 type fixtures" are not Explosion proof. They are listed for a hazard that is normally present. That hazard may be Class I (flammable vapors), Class II (combustible dusts), or Class III (ignitable fibers).

 

[dicklaxt]

What ever you say,,,,,,,,,

dick

 

[dicklaxt]

Let me try again

Let me try again

Once more let me re iterate that I was not explaining "Class and Division" but fixtue type and the Vaperproof/Dustproof will fit the application of a paint booth in a Class1, Div2 area

I mentioned in post #3 that the choice of the fixture for Class 1.Div2 would be Vaporproof/Dustproof and in post #8 I further tried to clear that up because of either my poor writing or your misinterpretation.

I will attach a link for perusal and you will note that there are many fixtures listed that are Vapor/Dust Proof and some are even recommended for paint booth application(probably because LDPI is one of the Majors in Paint Booth lighting) and they reinforce that with Hazardous Area references.

http://www.ldpi-inc.com/main-site/specs-lit/pdfs/2012 ldpi catalog.pdf

I also don't understand when you say a fixture that is installed in a Class1,Div1 area is not required to be Explosionproof.

dick

 

[weressl]

Once more let me re iterate that I was not explaining "Class and Division" but fixtue type and the Vaperproof/Dustproof will fit the application of a paint booth in a Class1, Div2 area

I mentioned in post #3 that the choice of the fixture for Class 1.Div2 would be Vaporproof/Dustproof and in post #8 I further tried to clear that up because of either my poor writing or your misinterpretation.

I will attach a link for perusal and you will note that there are many fixtures listed that are Vapor/Dust Proof and some are even recommended for paint booth application(probably because LDPI is one of the Majors in Paint Booth lighting) and they reinforce that with Hazardous Area references.

http://www.ldpi-inc.com/main-site/specs-lit/pdfs/2012 ldpi catalog.pdf

I also don't understand when you say a fixture that is installed in a Class1,Div1 area is not required to be Explosionproof.

dick

Because when you read the requirements in Article 501 for Class I, Div. 2 fixtures nowhere does it talk about any "Vaporproof/Dustproof" requirements. It discusses that it needs to be labeled - tested - for the Class, Division and Group and being a heat-producing device it also need to be tested and marked for the temperature group it belongs to.

 

[dicklaxt]

Agreed and once again I'm not quoting Area Class requirements,I'm saying that a Vaporproof/Dustproof fixture :thumbsup:is good for Class I & II,Div 2:thumbsup: as I referenced and there are many more,,,,,,,,,,,,

dick

 

[weressl]

Agreed and once again I'm not quoting Area Class requirements,I'm saying that a Vaporproof/Dustproof fixture :thumbsup:is good for Class I & II,Div 2:thumbsup: as I referenced and there are many more,,,,,,,,,,,,

dick

Nope and nope again. It can be either Vaporproof/Dustproof or not, but if it does not have a listing as Class I, Div. 2, Groups A and/or B/C/D, and T-Group listing by either UL, FM, ETL or any other NRTL then the fixture is NOT suitable for installation in those areas. Class II would not likely be applicable to a paintbooth either.

 

[dicklaxt]

Nope and nope again. It can be either Vaporproof/Dustproof or not, but if it does not have a listing as Class I, Div. 2, Groups A and/or B/C/D, and T-Group listing by either UL, FM, ETL or any other NRTL then the fixture is NOT suitable for installation in those areas. Class II would not likely be applicable to a paintbooth either.

Agreed, it needs to have the listing

Agreed,Class ii containing Combustible Dusts probably doesn't apply here but Class I description does include non combustible dust and was referenced in the OP.

This is getting to be more fun than a barrel of monkies.

The following link is to a major in the paint booth field,take a look,there are references to Vapor/Dust. US and Canada listings, UL standard #'s tested against,Atmosphere Groups and Temps.etc etc

What else do I need to post up to convince anyone that a Vaporproof/Dustproof fixture is a probable/good choice for paint booth applications as I stated in Post#3 that started the discussion via a misinterpretation.........

In reference to fixture selection you will note I never said all, I said many.

Ready for the next round

dick

 

[sgunsel]

I looked at the LDPI reference and they sell listed Class I, Division 2 lighting fixtures that are vapor/dust proof. They also sell vapor/dust proof fixtures that are for use only in ordinary/wet locations. They also sell explosion proof fixtures, but that is not the subject.

If you are inside a spray booth or inside a spray room, you are in a Class I, Division 1 area, and fixtures must be listed for Class I, Division 1.

If you are in boundary areas designated as Division 2, you must use fixtures listed for Class I, Division 2.

If you are in neither, the ordinary vapor proof/dust proof fixtures are OK.

 

[weressl]

Agreed, it needs to have the listing

Agreed,Class ii containing Combustible Dusts probably doesn't apply here but Class I description does include non combustible dust and was referenced in the OP.

This is getting to be more fun than a barrel of monkies.

The following link is to a major in the paint booth field,take a look,there are references to Vapor/Dust. US and Canada listings, UL standard #'s tested against,Atmosphere Groups and Temps.etc etc

What else do I need to post up to convince anyone that a Vaporproof/Dustproof fixture is a probable/good choice for paint booth applications as I stated in Post#3 that started the discussion via a misinterpretation.........

In reference to fixture selection you will note I never said all, I said many.

Ready for the next round

dick

Class I "description" does not include non-combustible dust. There are two documents that has the authoritative description what constitutes Class I atmosphere, NFPA 70 and NFPA 497.

None of the UL 844, FM 3600 or ETL (uses UL testing standards) standards concerning testing fixtures for Class I location addresses vapor or dust-tightness.

 

[BPoindexter]

What Dick is stating is somewhat true. Per NEC 501.130(B):

(1) Luminaires. Where lamps are of a size or type that
may, under normal operating conditions, reach surface temperatures
exceeding 80 percent of the ignition temperature
in degrees Celsius of the gas or vapor involved, luminaires
shall comply with 501.130(A)(1) or shall be of a type that
has been tested in order to determine the marked operating
temperature or temperature class (T Code).

The NEC Handbook and the NFPA's book "Electrical Installations in Hazardous Locations" both explain that "previously called Vaportight" fixtures are acceptable for C1D2 use. So if the fixture surface temp exceeds 80 of the ignition temp of whatever the hazard is then it has to be explosionproof or marked with a T Code. I am not sure how you would get a T Code unless it was listed for C1D2 but still Dick is techinically correct. The NEC does not necessarily REQUIRE that a luminaire be listed as C1D2.

Gadfly:

Division 1: always present (not techincally correct- "can exist normal operating conditions" is the correct phrase and no they are not quite the same thing)
Division 2: present on occasion or if equipment fails or something breaks (good explanation- "in case of accidental rupture or breakdown of such containers or systems or in case of abnormal operation of equipment")

So a gas/vapor may still be "present on occasion" but if it is so due to normal conditions then it would be a C1D1. It does not have to be "always present" to qualify a C1D1.

 

[BPoindexter]

See 500.5(B) There are 3 conditions given for C1D1 and 3 for C1D2. In the States I have worked a PE is required by law to make the determination and document the results usually through area classificaiton drawings.

 

[dicklaxt]

Class I "description" does not include non-combustible dust. There are two documents that has the authoritative description what constitutes Class I atmosphere, NFPA 70 and NFPA 497.

None of the UL 844, FM 3600 or ETL (uses UL testing standards) standards concerning testing fixtures for Class I location addresses vapor or dust-tightness.

I agree when pertaining to Area Classification by whomever for and per the Code but the fixture manufacturer's evidently have an additional testing requirement for non combustibles because that is in their state of compliance in the catalog right or wrong. Non combustible dusts for example brick,concrete etc may be harmful to the workings of the fixture itself,I don't know.

Now if we go back to the OP it was stated that the area was Class I Div 2 but that was in the form of a question to the forum when the OP stated (is that right?)but in the form of a statement to the poster by the owner or client.

The bottom line is Vapor/Dust Proof fixtures are acceptable in paint booths when recessed in the wall or ceiling(which is most always the case).If they are surface mounted then they must be Explosion Proof.

dick