Lighting NYC

Status
Not open for further replies.
L

liquidtite

Senior Member
Location
Ny
Recently started wrking in nyc

Was told you can't jump light fixture to fixture in and out.

So the guys were placing jboxs in between the fixtures and bringing one wip to light .

was also told that you can't have more than 5' length of wip out of jbox.

is this NYC code true and if so what is purpose ? Seems ridicules to me!
 
Even though boxes with tails had been the SOP for 75 years in NYC what you've been told is incorrect. A 3/8" FMC fixture whip/tail can be 6' long. You can go from fixture to fixture with MC cable with an unlimited length. Ask the people supplying this information for a code reference. It was done that way for a long time because branch circuit conductors were only rated for 60° C and fixture wires had a 90° C rating.
 
Can't say if there is any local codes that modify NEC, but with NEC the issues are:

1: typical fixture whips are 3/8 FMC - you are limited to six feet of FMC as an equipment grounding conductor - daisy chaining with flex would violate the six foot maximum flex used as an EGC.

2: typical fixture whips also only contain either 18 or 16 AWG conductors, you can make taps from main branch circuit to luminaires, but daisy chaining a whole room of luminaires on this tap conductor is a problem.

3: securing and supporting rules also are a problem - the FMC can be unsupported for 6 feet from a junction box to a luminaire, but from luminare to luminaire you would need securing/support 12 inches from terminations and every three feet. (I say this without looking it up, there may be provisions for this situation that relax support rules some, but I do know the 6 foot from a junction box is more clear and is most common thing seen out there.)

If you want to put in proper securing, pull full branch circuit sized conductors as well as pull full sized EGC then you can run flexible metal conduit from luminaire to luminaire. Up to you to figure out which method is most cost effective for you.
 
kwired said:
Can't say if there is any local codes that modify NEC, but with NEC the issues are:

1: typical fixture whips are 3/8 FMC - you are limited to six feet of FMC as an equipment grounding conductor - daisy chaining with flex would violate the six foot maximum flex used as an EGC.

2: typical fixture whips also only contain either 18 or 16 AWG conductors, you can make taps from main branch circuit to luminaires, but daisy chaining a whole room of luminaires on this tap conductor is a problem.

3: securing and supporting rules also are a problem - the FMC can be unsupported for 6 feet from a junction box to a luminaire, but from luminare to luminaire you would need securing/support 12 inches from terminations and every three feet. (I say this without looking it up, there may be provisions for this situation that relax support rules some, but I do know the 6 foot from a junction box is more clear and is most common thing seen out there.)

If you want to put in proper securing, pull full branch circuit sized conductors as well as pull full sized EGC then you can run flexible metal conduit from luminaire to luminaire. Up to you to figure out which method is most cost effective for you.
Click to expand...

I would add that if you're using 3/8" FMC you're limited to 6' in length with or without an EGC.
 
infinity said:
I would add that if you're using 3/8" FMC you're limited to 6' in length with or without an EGC.
Click to expand...

Everything is in mc , no 3/8 fixture wips sorry I didn't mention we were using mc and just used the term wip.

So that rule applies if your using 3/8 fmc wips and using fmc as Egc
no reason to use that method if your using mc.
 
Last edited:
NYC has its own building code. I can only imagine that they have many NFPA70 amendments. This question requires local knowledge.
 
I took a look at the NYC 2011 Electrical code and didn't find anything beyond what's required by the 2008 NEC (which the NYC code is based on) that's why I suggested asking for a code reference from the information supplier. :)
 
The Forman dosnt like if you question him and gets offended very hard to work with.

Once I asked about how slot of the conduits have not been detrated , more than 3 cccs
in conduit and he laughed and said that's not d rating , I havnt failed inspection I got this don't worry .

so I have feeling that if I ask for code article hill just bust my balls.

were can I get NYC code book ,
also when I take my jmans or placement test will the NYC code be in the test.
 
You can purchase the book here:

http://www.amazon.com/New-York-City-Electrical-Code/dp/1557017409

31OYlj8CA1L._BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 
infinity said:
I would add that if you're using 3/8" FMC you're limited to 6' in length with or without an EGC.
Click to expand...
Is that NEC or NYC? I am not finding such a restriction in NEC, other then if the raceway is used as an equipment grounding conductor then you are limited to six feet of FMC as part of the EGC path - no length limitations otherwise that I can find.
 
liquidtite said:
Recently started wrking in nyc

Was told you can't jump light fixture to fixture in and out.

So the guys were placing jboxs in between the fixtures and bringing one wip to light .

was also told that you can't have more than 5' length of wip out of jbox.

is this NYC code true and if so what is purpose ? Seems ridicules to me!
Click to expand...

Hey! I'm also from NYC and asked the same question a while ago on this forum.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=155522&highlight=

Conclusion was the NEC allowes to install jumps but the knowledge in NYC is low and people go with what they did on previous job.
Maybe even you are using MC cable and not BX (type AC) because some time ago that was required on commercial (public assembly) occupancies. Not any more but 'that's the way I did it and never had a problem' mentality.
This forum is a great place to learn and conversate. If you try to talk about NEC on job site it will only put you in distress and maybe trouble. I would just learn it for myself, do whatever Forman likes and once you run your job you will be able to do it the right way.
 
kwired said:
Is that NEC or NYC? I am not finding such a restriction in NEC, other then if the raceway is used as an equipment grounding conductor then you are limited to six feet of FMC as part of the EGC path - no length limitations otherwise that I can find.
Click to expand...


348.20 NEC
 
darekelec said:
Hey! I'm also from NYC and asked the same question a while ago on this forum.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=155522&highlight=

Conclusion was the NEC allowes to install jumps but the knowledge in NYC is low and people go with what they did on previous job.
Click to expand...

Is this not true outside of NYC (low knowledge/just do it how we did it)? I work as a designer in NYC and I know I have stopped showing motor feeders being smaller than the circuit breaker size partly because I was sick of getting RFIs about it.
 
I think that it's fair to say that in NYC there seems be a slower evolution to adopting new ideas/code changes than in other places. IMO this can be attributed to a number of factors, the biggest being that things have always been done a certain way even if that means that by national standards those methods are somewhat archaic. If had to point the finger at a few other causes I would start with a lack of any continuing education for electricians, and a lack of rough-in inspections. A lot of things get hidden when the walls are closed in and ceilings are already up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top