Lighting Plants

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JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
I tried Googling Mobil lighting plants.

Where will this be located?

Grounding the frame seems logical. I read about a few harzards involving faulty grounding. Please keep me informed I'm interested.



JJ
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
The only time I've heard the term "lighting plant" was when old books from the 1920's refer to the 32-ish volt generators used in basements of houses and on farms for lighting before electric lines came to the area. I have a feeling the OP is from overseas.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
This kind of lighting plant i think is what the OP meant -



light_plant.JPG
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
250.34(A) Should pretty well cover the issue. At least as far as the NEC is concerned.
 
I say ground them to the nearest water pipe and any other electrode present...if used on highways, you should probably ground them to the rebar in the concrete..yeah dig that up too, sounds good to me.




















Only kidding for those who do not really know my awesome sense of humor. :grin:
 
We usually ground them by just leaving them on the ground :D.



I'd treat it as a vehicle-mounted generator. Since hardly anybody uses the inconvienence outlets on them, as long as there's a proper bond internally, why would you need an external ground?
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
I'm going to disagree with ZBANG in NEC application semantics. On the right trail but it is NOT a vehicle mounted generator 250.34(B). It is a portable generator per 250.34(A)

In the fact that it does not require grounding? I fully agree with ZBANG, in practice. In support of the why, I back it up with the NEC (at least for this cycle, till proven otherwise):)
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I have a problem with the generators under the 2008 code. 250.20 requires, in most cases, that the system be a grounded system.
Grounded. Connected to earth or to some conducting body that serves in place of the earth.2005NEC
Under the 2005 code you could ground a system by connecting to earth or some conductive body that serves in place of the earth. It is my opinion that the generator frame was the conductive body that served in place of the earth under the 2005 code. Now comes the 2008 code and the only way to have a grounded system is to connect it to earth.
Grounded (Grounding) Connected (connecting) to ground or to a conductive body that extends the ground connection. 2008NEC
The generator frame can not now be used to ground the generator system. How do you comply with 250.20 under the 2008 code when using a portable or vehicle mounted generator?
 
I'm going to disagree with ZBANG in NEC application semantics. On the right trail but it is NOT a vehicle mounted generator 250.34(B). It is a portable generator per 250.34(A)

I'm not sure it matters whether (a) or (b) applies, neither requires an external grounding electrode when the only equipment supplied is mounted on it or cord-n-plug connected. (This is assuming proper bonding/etc. Most/all modern light towers are listed, so I suspect that these bonds exist.)

I'll also argue that these towers do count as vehicle-mounted, as they require license plates on most states and are "highway legal". They're also stretching the definition of portable in my book (two people can't lift it). Mobile, maybe...
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
Nothing personal ZBANG, oil patch has everything under the sun to -including portable generators, attached to 8' ground rods doing nothing but wasting money. I contend that they have it done for lack of understanding grounding vs bonding. I've tossed 250.4(A) <all of it>,at those in charge, and it's easier to do it, than fight the fight.

Checking definitions was interesting -

Portable (per the 2005 handbook) describes equipment that is easily carried by personnel from one location to another.

Mobile (per the 2005 handbook) describes equipment such as vehicle-mounted generators, that is capable of being moved on wheels or rollers. The frame of a portable generator is not required to be connected to earth (ground rod, water pipe, etc.) if the generator has receptacles mounted on the generator panel and the receptacles have equipment grounding terminals bonded to the generator frame.


I know, Handbook is not code, (FPN's) just as explanatory material is not. Believe that the definitions are acurate in their proper perspective though.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
If it plugs into a generator or has a built in generator, there is no earthing (grounding) requirement, but there is a bonding requirement.
Tom,
Under the 2008 code how can you have a grounded system as required by 250.20 without a connection to the earth?
 
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