lightning protection
- Thread starter sleepy
- Start date
- Status
ron
Senior Member
- Location
- New York, 40.7514,-73.9925
Re: lightning protection
Lighting protection is not a requirement of the NEC.
A single air terminal on a weathervane, without the supporting grounding and bonding throughout the rest of the structure will be ineffective.
Lighting protection is not a requirement of the NEC.
A single air terminal on a weathervane, without the supporting grounding and bonding throughout the rest of the structure will be ineffective.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: lightning protection
Some of the higher end homes we do, have copper spires, I do suggest to the builder or home owner that it would be a good idea to run down leads to electrodes and bond the system together but there is no enforceable requirement that a AHJ can use to make them do this. So I inform but it's up to them to want to pay for this as an extra.
The most common reason they don't want it done:
They don't like the look of copper straps running down the side of there house. and I refuse to install them under the siding or brick next to combustible building materials. I would rather use standoffs and install them in a inconspicuous place.
Some of the higher end homes we do, have copper spires, I do suggest to the builder or home owner that it would be a good idea to run down leads to electrodes and bond the system together but there is no enforceable requirement that a AHJ can use to make them do this. So I inform but it's up to them to want to pay for this as an extra.
The most common reason they don't want it done:
They don't like the look of copper straps running down the side of there house. and I refuse to install them under the siding or brick next to combustible building materials. I would rather use standoffs and install them in a inconspicuous place.
hbiss
EC, New York NEC: 2017
- Location
- Little Falls, New York NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- EC
Re: lightning protection
I really don't know if we should be doing this as it's a specialized trade though with a little education it shouldn't be a big deal. Wayne, have you run into any liability or insurance problems?
Anyway, here is a link to one source of material- http://www.lightningarrestors.com/
-Hal
I really don't know if we should be doing this as it's a specialized trade though with a little education it shouldn't be a big deal. Wayne, have you run into any liability or insurance problems?
Anyway, here is a link to one source of material- http://www.lightningarrestors.com/
-Hal
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: lightning protection
Hal I do have a certificate for lightning protection systems from Mid Florida Tech/ University of Gainesville. It was a requirement class for communication electronics with a commercial ticket. Also this was one area I was fascinated with as I was always wanting to know what made it tic, as it didn't follow normal electrical theory. Which as I found out later it was the high frequency content of a lightning stroke that at the time I didn't understand. But the state of Indiana doesn't have any special license for this field. unlike other states. And yes I still chase storms when we do get them but I haven't had a good camera system like I had when I was in Florida (which was stolen out of my car -$) When I decide to retire that is what I will probably do chase storms and snap photo's of lightning. Sound's fun doesn't it.
Hal I do have a certificate for lightning protection systems from Mid Florida Tech/ University of Gainesville. It was a requirement class for communication electronics with a commercial ticket. Also this was one area I was fascinated with as I was always wanting to know what made it tic, as it didn't follow normal electrical theory. Which as I found out later it was the high frequency content of a lightning stroke that at the time I didn't understand. But the state of Indiana doesn't have any special license for this field. unlike other states. And yes I still chase storms when we do get them but I haven't had a good camera system like I had when I was in Florida (which was stolen out of my car -$) When I decide to retire that is what I will probably do chase storms and snap photo's of lightning. Sound's fun doesn't it.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: lightning protection
Oh I forgot to add this:
My bond and insurance agent has copy's of all my education and certificates. So he is well aware if what I am allowed to touch. But he just made one remark:
Don't touch any plumbing especially GAS! :roll:
Oh I forgot to add this:
My bond and insurance agent has copy's of all my education and certificates. So he is well aware if what I am allowed to touch. But he just made one remark:
Don't touch any plumbing especially GAS! :roll:
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: lightning protection
I have never heard of a license other than that which a state or government agent might offer. remember this state is behind times with license requirements. and the only thing I have ever been asked to do was to have a UL Master Label Certification inspection done. Which I might add is not easy to pass and the cost is not cheap. But this was done by the insurer for the building. There are many installations that do require even us as an electrician to do and allot of it is in the 800 sections of the NEC. Does that mean we have to sub contract out to do these requirement? I would think not. But to install air terminals, down leads. Bonding of all roof top metal. yes it does require some extra knowledge and as you know Dereck most in the electrical field would be lost if they had to do a cell site or a broadcast radio transmission tower with out the help of an engineer. But does this work require an engineer? Not if some has the correct knowledge. But most firms do when it comes to high tech equipment or large facility's that would be very susceptible to lightning damage. Most of these sites will have a engineer to spell out what has to be done, and follow up with the UL Master Label Certification inspection program to protect his butt.
By the way the UL Master Label Certification inspection program also uses NFPA 780, and UL 96A, Standard for Installation Requirements for Lightning Protection Systems when checking the installation.
I have never heard of a license other than that which a state or government agent might offer. remember this state is behind times with license requirements. and the only thing I have ever been asked to do was to have a UL Master Label Certification inspection done. Which I might add is not easy to pass and the cost is not cheap. But this was done by the insurer for the building. There are many installations that do require even us as an electrician to do and allot of it is in the 800 sections of the NEC. Does that mean we have to sub contract out to do these requirement? I would think not. But to install air terminals, down leads. Bonding of all roof top metal. yes it does require some extra knowledge and as you know Dereck most in the electrical field would be lost if they had to do a cell site or a broadcast radio transmission tower with out the help of an engineer. But does this work require an engineer? Not if some has the correct knowledge. But most firms do when it comes to high tech equipment or large facility's that would be very susceptible to lightning damage. Most of these sites will have a engineer to spell out what has to be done, and follow up with the UL Master Label Certification inspection program to protect his butt.
By the way the UL Master Label Certification inspection program also uses NFPA 780, and UL 96A, Standard for Installation Requirements for Lightning Protection Systems when checking the installation.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: lightning protection
Dereck It's ok I have been having one of those weeks where you just want to find that guy named Murphy and shoot him for making up those laws.
But In case you don't know UL does have a listing program for contractors who also do lightning protection. But one of the requirement,s is to have a few installations pass their inspections. Go figure. A listed contractor :roll: What next, Maybe we need to be listed to do electrical work. :roll:
[ August 24, 2004, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Dereck It's ok I have been having one of those weeks where you just want to find that guy named Murphy and shoot him for making up those laws.
But In case you don't know UL does have a listing program for contractors who also do lightning protection. But one of the requirement,s is to have a few installations pass their inspections. Go figure. A listed contractor :roll: What next, Maybe we need to be listed to do electrical work. :roll:
[ August 24, 2004, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Re: lightning protection
Wayne, I think we are talking about the same thing. Where I used to work we used our own in-house listed/certified electricians, except in union area where we would then use a local EC under one of our own supervision.
Bottom line was the UL inspection fee for the 'Master Label" listing.
Wayne, I think we are talking about the same thing. Where I used to work we used our own in-house listed/certified electricians, except in union area where we would then use a local EC under one of our own supervision.
Bottom line was the UL inspection fee for the 'Master Label" listing.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: lightning protection
Dereck
Do you require solid copper flat strap for down leads or as GEC conductors. They are much more effective on lightning (skin effect) than round cables.
Dereck
Do you require solid copper flat strap for down leads or as GEC conductors. They are much more effective on lightning (skin effect) than round cables.
Re: lightning protection
. I pretty much use a company called Advanced Lightning Technology product line for buildings and PolyPhaser for radio stuff.
[ August 25, 2004, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: dereckbc ]
Only on small shelters and coax cable entrance panels. Otherwise a special copper cable called either 29-7 or 27-9, having a desliexia moment
. I pretty much use a company called Advanced Lightning Technology product line for buildings and PolyPhaser for radio stuff.[ August 25, 2004, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: dereckbc ]
Re: lightning protection
NFPA 780 is the Standard for the Installation of Lighting Protection Systems. If you are going to provide a new installation or make repairs to an existing installation following the 780 standard is crital for operation, safety and liability.
Once you touch it, you can say you own it.
If you follow the Standard 780 you can always justify your installation medthods.
If I am performing work that is limited in it's scope and cost and I see visible indications that other parts of the system are not within code or not completed I make sure I footnote it to the customer in the final invoice.
A statement as follows is always helpful to both you and your customer:
...."It was observed that there are inconsistences or contrasting issues with the existing system that do not comply with the code or standard. These inconsistences or contrasting code issues could result in personal injury or property damage if not properly investigated and/or corrected"...
Go Nec
NFPA 780 is the Standard for the Installation of Lighting Protection Systems. If you are going to provide a new installation or make repairs to an existing installation following the 780 standard is crital for operation, safety and liability.
Once you touch it, you can say you own it.
If you follow the Standard 780 you can always justify your installation medthods.
If I am performing work that is limited in it's scope and cost and I see visible indications that other parts of the system are not within code or not completed I make sure I footnote it to the customer in the final invoice.
A statement as follows is always helpful to both you and your customer:
...."It was observed that there are inconsistences or contrasting issues with the existing system that do not comply with the code or standard. These inconsistences or contrasting code issues could result in personal injury or property damage if not properly investigated and/or corrected"...
Go Nec
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: lightning protection
Originally posted by hurk27:
What next, Maybe we need to be listed to do electrical work.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: lightning protection
There are many short falls in NFPA's 780.
Take a look at this artical:
National Lightning Safety Institute 780 Html
There are many short falls in NFPA's 780.
Take a look at this artical:
National Lightning Safety Institute 780 Html
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