Lights & Plugs

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SAP

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Fresno Ca
For a residential Service can I just put lights and plugs for general lighting & plugs on my dead front to identify my circuits, other then my small appliance kitchen circuit restroom circuit any other dedicated circuit.this is already happened twice to me inspector told me I couldn't just put general lighting and plugs. I cannot find anything in the codebook saying I can't .is the inspector right
 
SAP said:
For a residential Service can I just put lights and plugs for general lighting & plugs on my dead front
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I have no idea what you mean. what is a dead front-- dead front gfci but I doubt that is what you are addressing.

Do you mean panel directory?
 
See NEC 408.4. The inspector is correct. "Plugs" would also be a problem for me. The definition in Article 100 says a plug goes on the end of a cord and it is inserted into a receptacle.
 
hmspe said:
See NEC 408.4. The inspector is correct. "Plugs" would also be a problem for me. The definition in Article 100 says a plug goes on the end of a cord and it is inserted into a receptacle.
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I agree, it is Receptacles, not Plugs.

Also, see highlighted portion below...

408.4 Field Identification Required.


(A) Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification. Every
circuit and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as
to its clear, evident, and specific purpose or use. The identification
shall include an approved degree of detail that
allows each circuit to be distinguished from all others.
Spare positions that contain unused overcurrent devices or
switches shall be described accordingly. The identification
shall be included in a circuit directory that is located on the
face or inside of the panel door in the case of a panelboard
and at each switch or circuit breaker in a switchboard or
switchgear. No circuit shall be described in a manner that
depends on transient conditions of occupancy.

(B) Source of Supply. All switchboards, switchgear, and
panelboards supplied by a feeder(s) in other than one- or
two-family dwellings shall be marked to indicate each device
or equipment where the power originates.
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You are right about plugs and receptacles The real term is receptacles, but that was not issue, he wants to know exactly where those lights and receptacles are located. My question is can I just put general lights and receptacles on a dead front to a panel to identify the circuits where they go
 
SAP said:
You are right about plugs and receptacles The real term is receptacles, but that was not issue, he wants to know exactly where those lights and receptacles are located. My question is can I just put general lights and receptacles on a dead front to a panel to identify the circuits where they go
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I think if you have a really small house and only one general lighting circuit - that would be fine, if you have more then one general lighting circuit I think 408.4(A) requires a little more detail, but at same time it also says "an approved degree of detail", which leaves it in the AHJ's playing field.
 
I always state what rooms the lights and receptacles are in. For instance I may have master bedroom receptacles, guest bedrooms receptacles, bath receptacles, furnace on first floor , 2nd floor a/c unit, etc
 
I prefer:

"Janie's lights"
"Paul's office receptacles"
"The light by that window near the bushes"

and stuff like that.
 
That sounds fine on a house from the ground up (new) , but 9 times out of 10 if client needs a service change then it's a older house .one wall could be the master bedroom then jump to kitchen then jump to outside plugs then feed his disposal ,
 
SAP said:
That sounds fine on a house from the ground up (new) , but 9 times out of 10 if client needs a service change then it's a older house .one wall could be the master bedroom then jump to kitchen then jump to outside plugs then feed his disposal ,
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Well, admittedly that's a more complicated situation. Saying "receptacles and luminaires" is meaningless. This is the very reason that the language in 408.4(A) was added. . . to give the AHJ the power to tell the installer that the words used had to actually be meaningful.
 
jaylectricity said:
I prefer:

"Janie's lights"
"Paul's office receptacles"
"The light by that window near the bushes"

and stuff like that.
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From a post above.

408.4 Field Identification Required.


(A) Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification. Every
circuit and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as
to its clear, evident, and specific purpose or use. The identification
shall include an approved degree of detail that
allows each circuit to be distinguished from all others.
Spare positions that contain unused overcurrent devices or
switches shall be described accordingly. The identification
shall be included in a circuit directory that is located on the
face or inside of the panel door in the case of a panelboard
and at each switch or circuit breaker in a switchboard or
switchgear. No circuit shall be described in a manner that
depends on transient conditions of occupancy.

(B) Source of Supply. All switchboards, switchgear, and
panelboards supplied by a feeder(s) in other than one- or
two-family dwellings shall be marked to indicate each device
or equipment where the power originates.

See bold underlined type above.
 
SAP said:
My question is can I just put general lights and receptacles on a dead front to a panel to identify the circuits where they go
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No, you can not do that if the inspector does not approve it.

See the blue text in smarts post number 4
 
norcal said:
From a post above.

408.4 Field Identification Required.


(A) Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification. Every
circuit and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as
to its clear, evident, and specific purpose or use. The identification
shall include an approved degree of detail that
allows each circuit to be distinguished from all others.
Spare positions that contain unused overcurrent devices or
switches shall be described accordingly. The identification
shall be included in a circuit directory that is located on the
face or inside of the panel door in the case of a panelboard
and at each switch or circuit breaker in a switchboard or
switchgear. No circuit shall be described in a manner that
depends on transient conditions of occupancy.

(B) Source of Supply. All switchboards, switchgear, and
panelboards supplied by a feeder(s) in other than one- or
two-family dwellings shall be marked to indicate each device
or equipment where the power originates.

See bold underlined type above.
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Exactly, you need to say things like upstars bedroom to the left of stairs or northeast corner of the first floor you can not say 'Dave's room'
 
iwire said:
Exactly, you need to say things like upstars bedroom to the left of stairs or northeast corner of the first floor you can not say 'Dave's room'
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:thumbsup:

Using the Cardinals/InterCardinals for bedrooms/areas is really the best way to do it as its more precise about what controls what. Who doesn't know a compass rose? As alluded to by others, "Paul" could have moved out in 1990 or Jane could sell the house in December and labeling breakers that way is a violation.
 
user 100 said:
:thumbsup:

Using the Cardinals/InterCardinals for bedrooms/areas is really the best way to do it as its more precise about what controls what. Who doesn't know a compass rose? As alluded to by others, "Paul" could have moved out in 1990 or Jane could sell the house in December and labeling breakers that way is a violation.
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Unfortunately I have also ran into buildings that have been moved, and "north bedroom" is no longer on the north side.

But I don't like "bedroom #2, bedroom #3 either. Those maybe make sense if you have the house plans in front of you, but mean very little several years later when plans are gone. Seem to run into this on manufactured homes a lot.
 
kwired said:
But I don't like "bedroom #2, bedroom #3 either. Those maybe make sense if you have the house plans in front of you, but mean very little several years later when plans are gone. Seem to run into this on manufactured homes a lot.
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That's how I always mark them. First the master bedroom and then bedroom #2 and #3. Now they have a 50% chance of being right which is better than normal. The odds go down a little as bedrooms are added.
 
growler said:
That's how I always mark them. First the master bedroom and then bedroom #2 and #3. Now they have a 50% chance of being right which is better than normal. The odds go down a little as bedrooms are added.
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Well chances are I have bedroom 2 and 3 on one circuit anyway so unless there is also bedrooms 4-5-6 on different circuits it kind of doesn't matter.
 
kwired said:
Unfortunately I have also ran into buildings that have been moved, and "north bedroom" is no longer on the north side.

But I don't like "bedroom #2, bedroom #3 either. Those maybe make sense if you have the house plans in front of you, but mean very little several years later when plans are gone. Seem to run into this on manufactured homes a lot.
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Obviously true for structures that have been moved, but for a site built house, using the compass is a good way to go.


And spot on about mh's- one thing they did in a lot of them is mislabel by putting a "mostly correct" generic directory at the main for the model that would show, say a ckt for the dw, yet there never was a dw put in that particular trailer and the brkr really controls part of an island and/or r hood or the directory will show fart fans for baths, but won't have any of those either- iow's labeling for a premium in a plain jane.
 
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