Old house has 4 meters, 60 A fuses per branch. I am attempting to get a rough idea of whether new wire would have to be pulled in from the street if we were to upgrade to 100 or 150 A service per branch. Three conductors 120/208 V (not including ground) come in from the street; the cables are not labeled. They are rubber insulated with an O.D. of .75" Any idea of what wire size and current capacity they are? (Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question -- I am a lawyer; not an electrician.) michael.j.wilhelm@verizon.net
Likely wire size and capacity
- Thread starter oryx
- Start date
- Status
G
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Guest
Re: Likely wire size and capacity
Is the insulation dull or shiny?
Does it look like the insulation has a "clear" coat?
If you look closely there should be some faint markings on the wire.
Post back with these details & markings.
Is the insulation dull or shiny?
Does it look like the insulation has a "clear" coat?
If you look closely there should be some faint markings on the wire.
Post back with these details & markings.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Likely wire size and capacity
Hello oryx, and welcome. I am not going to answer your question because without seeing it I think it would be irresponsible of me to do so. There are simply too many variables. What I would reccomend is that you get bids from a few reputable, qualified, licensed and insured electricians in your area. If they meet the above criteria, they should be happy to explain what is going on. You didn't plan on doing this yourself anyway, did you?
Hello oryx, and welcome. I am not going to answer your question because without seeing it I think it would be irresponsible of me to do so. There are simply too many variables. What I would reccomend is that you get bids from a few reputable, qualified, licensed and insured electricians in your area. If they meet the above criteria, they should be happy to explain what is going on. You didn't plan on doing this yourself anyway, did you?
big john
Senior Member
- Location
- Portland, ME
Re: Likely wire size and capacity
Either he's got a three phase system to his house (if the ground he spoke of was actually the grounded conductor) or it's that strange two phase nonsense that doesn't make much sense to me (and the ground he spoke of was actually the GEC or EGC).
-John
Either he's got a three phase system to his house (if the ground he spoke of was actually the grounded conductor) or it's that strange two phase nonsense that doesn't make much sense to me (and the ground he spoke of was actually the GEC or EGC).
-John
Re: Likely wire size and capacity
The insulation is dull and apparently is rubber. There is no clear coat. I looked at it carefully and there are no markings. Heck no, I was not going to attempt it myself and I was not going to rely on just an answer on this bulletin board. I can imagine the utility's reaction if I asked them to turn off the power for a few hours while I pulled new cable through the underground conduit. This is a really old house -- built in 1885 -- that originally had gas lights. Several generations of electricians have probably done work here. Some of the outlets are served by cloth-covered, rubber insulated, two-conductor cable; others are BX and some are just Romex. I understand the reluctance to furnish the information, but be assured this is no "do-it-yourself" project.
The insulation is dull and apparently is rubber. There is no clear coat. I looked at it carefully and there are no markings. Heck no, I was not going to attempt it myself and I was not going to rely on just an answer on this bulletin board. I can imagine the utility's reaction if I asked them to turn off the power for a few hours while I pulled new cable through the underground conduit. This is a really old house -- built in 1885 -- that originally had gas lights. Several generations of electricians have probably done work here. Some of the outlets are served by cloth-covered, rubber insulated, two-conductor cable; others are BX and some are just Romex. I understand the reluctance to furnish the information, but be assured this is no "do-it-yourself" project.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Likely wire size and capacity
So any increase in service size will include replacing these conductors at your expense.
If these conductors are under utility control, you will not need to worry about them, the utility may or may not replace them, in this area there would be no charge for the replacement of the cables, although you may get a general service charge for disconnect and reconnect.
IMO If you do replace the service go right to 200 amps, you will not spend much more then you would for a 100-150 amp service.
Even if you do not need all that power you will end up with a 42 circuit panel that gives plenty of room for additions later.
Bob
OK if the conductors you are asking about are under the control of the NEC it is a safe bet that they will be sized for a 60 amp service as that is what you say you have.
So any increase in service size will include replacing these conductors at your expense.
If these conductors are under utility control, you will not need to worry about them, the utility may or may not replace them, in this area there would be no charge for the replacement of the cables, although you may get a general service charge for disconnect and reconnect.
IMO If you do replace the service go right to 200 amps, you will not spend much more then you would for a 100-150 amp service.
Even if you do not need all that power you will end up with a 42 circuit panel that gives plenty of room for additions later.
Bob
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Likely wire size and capacity
First go to your local utility and get a copy of their customer service handbook. You may also want to call them and ask for an on site meeting with an engineer or customer service rep. Find out who owns what and were your wiring starts.
Second, find a local qualified electrican to do the job or help you.
Keep in mind this site is not for DIY'ers. A lot of times the local power company regulations are the controlling part of a job, they vary greatly with each power company.
First go to your local utility and get a copy of their customer service handbook. You may also want to call them and ask for an on site meeting with an engineer or customer service rep. Find out who owns what and were your wiring starts.
Second, find a local qualified electrican to do the job or help you.
Keep in mind this site is not for DIY'ers. A lot of times the local power company regulations are the controlling part of a job, they vary greatly with each power company.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Likely wire size and capacity
The utility is allowed to run smaller conductors on their side of the meter. That being said, they are not allowed to cram a pipe full of wires. They still need to worry about conduit fill. Upgrading your service may not require them to change their side at all. If they do have to increase the size of their wires, the size of the conduit will have to be increased. In my area we have to provide the underground conduit from the dwelling to the POCO pull box. If your pipe is too small you will have to pay to upgrade it. Is your whole neighborhood underground or do you have power poles? If the POCO has to tear up the street to run a new feeder (may be direct burial) from the power pole to the pull box you will be charged for that material & labor-- and it isn't cheap. I am speaking for my area only (Pacific Gas & Electric). Your mileage may vary. For overhead service they don't charge us extra , but for underground to a power pole they do charge us.
../Wayne C.
[ September 14, 2003, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
The utility is allowed to run smaller conductors on their side of the meter. That being said, they are not allowed to cram a pipe full of wires. They still need to worry about conduit fill. Upgrading your service may not require them to change their side at all. If they do have to increase the size of their wires, the size of the conduit will have to be increased. In my area we have to provide the underground conduit from the dwelling to the POCO pull box. If your pipe is too small you will have to pay to upgrade it. Is your whole neighborhood underground or do you have power poles? If the POCO has to tear up the street to run a new feeder (may be direct burial) from the power pole to the pull box you will be charged for that material & labor-- and it isn't cheap. I am speaking for my area only (Pacific Gas & Electric). Your mileage may vary. For overhead service they don't charge us extra , but for underground to a power pole they do charge us.
../Wayne C.
[ September 14, 2003, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
Re: Likely wire size and capacity
Thanks to all of you for the information- it is going to prove very useful. All of the utilities in my neighborhood -- and in most of the densely occupied areas of Washington, DC, are underground. That's a good thing and a bad thing: we still have power today after the passage of hurricane Isabel, unlike hundreds of our suburban neighbors; but the high capacitance between the closely spaced underground cables makes it difficult for the utility to correct for power factor, making the voltage regulation kinda iffy and shortening lamp life. (130 v lamps are better when we can get them). Again, thanks for the help.
MJW
Thanks to all of you for the information- it is going to prove very useful. All of the utilities in my neighborhood -- and in most of the densely occupied areas of Washington, DC, are underground. That's a good thing and a bad thing: we still have power today after the passage of hurricane Isabel, unlike hundreds of our suburban neighbors; but the high capacitance between the closely spaced underground cables makes it difficult for the utility to correct for power factor, making the voltage regulation kinda iffy and shortening lamp life. (130 v lamps are better when we can get them). Again, thanks for the help.
MJW
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Likely wire size and capacity
Actually Wayne, no requirements for conduit fill exist in the NESC.
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