Liqueur storage clasification

W

WattsOn70

Member
Location
Dallas, TX
Hello,

Working in a restaurant with a fire rated liqueur storage room.
Could it be considered a Class I Div 2 location.
So far, there is not mechanical ventilation designed for this room.

Our plan was to install pony panel here to take care of and entire section of the restaurant and the bar, but the concern with accidental ignition risks is holding me up.

Any inputs or comments form previous experience will help me decide. Maybe is totally to AJH discretion.

Thanks.
 
Could it be considered a Class I Div 2 location.
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It could be - but we discourage classifying locations for others in this forum. Classifying should be done by someone that knows what they are doing and knows the full topography of the location and the flammable material(s) configuration such as containment, volume, etc.
 
WattsOn70 said:
Any inputs or comments form previous experience will help me decide. Maybe is totally to AJH discretion.
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In this area, a lot of the area classifications are done by the Fire Marshall and building inspectors. Many times there are ventilation and egress considerations along with electrical issues.
 
The NEC (2023) requirement for documentation is:
500.4 Documentation.

Areas designated as hazardous (classified) locations or determined to be unclassified shall be documented on an area classification drawing and other associated documentation. This documentation shall be available to the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) and those authorized to design, install, inspect, maintain, or operate electrical equipment at the location.
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In my experience, except for Articles 511 to 517, AHJs are not particularly good at creating such documents. Usually it's because they don't use the correct procedures outlined in NFPA 497, 499, or ANSI/API RP 500. They also don't usually have access to the processes involved.

Design engineers during the initial project stages usually have the best understanding, with some Insurance underwriters a reasonable second. Both the design engineers and insurance companies ultimately have “skin in the game.” AHJs really don’t. They are usually fine inspecting the end product.
 
A key 2023 revision to Section 500.4 is “... or determined to be unclassified...”. In essence, it means someone is responsible for determining whether a location is unclassified rather than nonhazardous.

I hit reply too early. Someone is also responsible for determining a location is “free of recognized hazards” (OSHA General Duty Clause) but that isn't in the scope of the NEC.
 
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Ragin Cajun said:
Why is this any different than a liquor store?
They sure aren't "classified"!
Who decided the room to be "fire rated"?

RC
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The architectural plans indicate fire rated walls in the 'wall schedule'. It doesn't mention to be a 'classified' location.
It actually got my attention when we decided to install a pony panel inside.
Not a typical shopping liqueur store with enough plenty of air venting; so if not classified, i think it won't hurt add a smoke sensor to the already existing sprinkler head, and a exhaust fan for ventilation.
Added a section of the furniture layout for illustration.
 

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In my years of experience, I have run across these minor classification areas a couple of times. One I specifically remember was an Auto parts store with a small area classified for a paint mixing area. I found that Engineers push it on the Architect and the Architect doesn't know either. You haves seen the comments from Rbalex on this thread. He is historically the resident MH "expert" on this issue.
 
One of my favorite “rules” in NFPA 497, Chapter 5 is:
5.6.4

When classifying buildings, careful evaluation of prior experience with the same or similar installations should be made. It is not enough to identify only a potential source of the combustible material within the building and proceed immediately to defining the extent of either the Class I, Division 1 or Division 2; or Zone 1 or Zone 2 classified areas. Where experience indicates that a particular design concept is sound, a more hazardous classification for similar installations may not be justified. Furthermore, it is conceivable that an area be reclassified from either Class I, Division 1 to Class I Division 2, or from Class I, Division 2 to unclassified, or from Zone 1 to Zone 2, or from Zone 2 to unclassified, based on experience.
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Essentially, this means “This is how we’ve always done it.” is usually acceptable IF you have actually “done it” enough times in the past.
 
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