Liquidtight....

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chevyx92

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If it's listed for direct burial then can it emerge from grade, legally? Had an inspector tell me it wasn't legal even if it was in an area not subject to damage.
 
I think that most people call anything emerging from grade or from a floor "subject to physical damage". Myself, I side with the inspector on this one.
 
chevyx92 said:
If it's listed for direct burial then can it emerge from grade, legally? Had an inspector tell me it wasn't legal even if it was in an area not subject to damage.
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That is asinine . Could he cite an article ?????

If it is not subject to physical damage there is no reason to fail you,, heck UF cable can emerge from the ground where not subject to physical damage, this guy is a P.U.D. person under delusion
 
That is what is wrong with they way a lot of the code is written.

It is open to interpetation. Heck, ANYTHING is subject to damage in the right (or wrong) conditions.
 
M. D. said:
That is asinine . Could he cite an article ?????

If it is not subject to physical damage there is no reason to fail you,, heck UF cable can emerge from the ground where not subject to physical damage, this guy is a P.U.D. person under delusion
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He didn't cite an article. I was just looking under 300.5 to see if maybe that had anything to do with it. I'm just not sure if he was correct on the part that even if it wasn't subject to damage that you still can't emerge with liquidtight. I can understand if it was subject to damage. Do you think he may have been referencing 300.5(D)??
 
Here is some info from U.L.

USE AND INSTALLATION
This category covers liquid-tight flexible nonmetallic conduit, in trade sizes 3/8 in. to 4 (metric designators 12 to 103) inclusive, for installation in accordance with Article 356 of ANSI/NFPA 70, "National Electrical Code" (NEC), for conductors in circuits of 600 V, nominal, or less. This product may also be used for installation of conductors for electric signs and outline lighting in accordance with the NEC.
PRODUCT MARKINGS

Liquid-tight flexible nonmetallic conduit suitable for direct burial and in poured concrete is marked "Direct Burial,"" Burial,""Dir Burial" or "Dir Bur."
Liquid-tight flexible nonmetallic conduit suitable for use outdoors is marked "Outdoor."
Liquid-tight flexible nonmetallic conduit is marked with the product name in conjunction with the Listing Mark and the type of construction: "A" for layered conduit, "B" for integral conduit and "C" for corrugated conduit, or with "LFNC-A" for layered conduit, "LFNC-B" for integral conduit, and "LFNC-C" for corrugated conduit.
Liquid-tight flexible nonmetallic conduit not marked with a temperature designation or marked "60 C" is for use at temperatures not in excess of 60?C (140?F).
Conduit for use in dry or oily locations at a temperature higher than 60?C (140?F) is marked "____ C dry, 60 C wet, 70 C oil res" or "____ C dry, 60 C wet, 70 C oil resistant" with "80 C" or "105 C" inserted as the dry locations temperature.
Conduit marked "___C dry, 60 C wet, 60 C oil res" or "___C dry, 60 C wet, 60 C oil resistant" is for use at a temperature of 105?C (221?F) and lower temperatures in air, and at 60?C (140?F) and lower temperatures where exposed to water, oil or coolants, with "80 C,""90 C" or "105 C" inserted as the dry locations temperature.
RELATED PRODUCTS

Fittings for use with liquid-tight nonmetallic conduit are covered under Conduit Fittings (DWTT) and are suitable only for the type of conduit indicated by the marking on the fitting.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

For additional information, see Electrical Equipment for Use in Ordinary Locations (AALZ).
REQUIREMENTS

The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is ANSI/UL 1660, "Liquid-Tight Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit."
UL MARK

The Listing Mark of Underwriters Laboratories Inc. on the product is the only method provided by UL to identify products manufactured under its Listing and Follow-Up Service. The Listing Mark for these products includes the UL symbol (as illustrated in the Introduction of this Directory) together with the word "LISTED," a control number, and one of the following product names as appropriate: "Liquid-Tight Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit,""LFNC-A,""LFNC-B" or "LFNC-C."
Last Updated on 2007-07-10
Questions?
Notice of Disclaimer
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Copyright ? 2007 Underwriters Laboratories Inc.?
The appearance of a company's name or product in this database does not in itself assure that products so identified have been manufactured under UL's Follow-Up Service. Only those products bearing the UL Mark should be considered to be Listed and covered under UL's Follow-Up Service. Always look for the Mark on the product.
UL permits the reproduction of the material contained in the Online Certification Directory subject to the following conditions: 1. The Guide Information, Designs and/or Listings (files) must be presented in their entirety and in a non-misleading manner, without any manipulation of the data (or drawings). 2. The statement "Reprinted from the Online Certifications Directory with permission from Underwriters Laboratories Inc." must appear adjacent to the extracted material. In addition, the reprinted material must include a copyright notice in the following format: "Copyright ? 2007 Underwriters Laboratories Inc.?"
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chevyx92 said:
If it's listed for direct burial then can it emerge from grade, legally? Had an inspector tell me it wasn't legal even if it was in an area not subject to damage.
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We allow it all the time. In fact we require it if the a/c comp is over 3' from the house. Down the wall from the disc to the ground, buried underground then back up to the a/c comp.
 
Cavie said:
We allow it all the time. In fact we require it if the a/c comp is over 3' from the house. Down the wall from the disc to the ground, buried underground then back up to the a/c comp.
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I would call that exposed to physical damage, in my opinion. That is, unless nobody gardens or mows their lawn or uses weed wackers in your area.
 
mdshunk said:
I would call that exposed to physical damage, in my opinion. That is, unless nobody gardens or mows their lawn or uses weed wackers in your area.
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The inspector said he would fail it regarless of it's being exposed to physical damage.

Would you feel the same about sch. 40 PVC ??
 
M. D. said:
The inspector said he would fail it regarless of it's being exposed to physical damage.

Would you feel the same about sch. 40 PVC ??
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In the eyes of the code, with respect to protection from physical damage, liquidtight flex and sch 40 PVC are the same. That is to say, neither is rated for protection against physical damage, even if one will do a better job of protection versus the other. Schedule 80 PVC is the only nonmetallic raceway rated for protection against physical damage.
 
You said you agreed with the inspector , He does not contemplate physical damage ,.. He says no regardless . Do you???
 
M. D. said:
You said you agreed with the inspector , He does not contemplate physical damage ,.. He says no regardless . Do you???
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Um... yeah, sorta. What I think I'm saying is that if it's exposed and emerging from grade, it's necessarily exposed to physical damage. It's completely okay if you disagree with that assessment, but that's my opinion.

What I base this on is the fact that direct bury cable and conductors need this protection, so why should conductors not rated for direct burial be able to get away with a lesser grade of physical protection?
 
mdshunk said:
In the eyes of the code, with respect to protection from physical damage, liquidtight flex and sch 40 PVC are the same. That is to say, neither is rated for protection against physical damage, even if one will do a better job of protection versus the other. Schedule 80 PVC is the only nonmetallic raceway rated for protection against physical damage.
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What if you emerge from grade under a house in the crawl space? Would you consider that subject to damage and not allow liquidtight or sch 40 to emerge? Just curious as to others opinions.
 
benaround said:
M.D.

I would disagree with UF cable emerging from the earth unprotected 300.5(D)(1) and (2) , am I missing another article?
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I think I said ,If it is not subject to physical damage,. Would it it not then be protected from damage?? is there a difference?
I guess there is,,,directly buried cables and conductors need to be protected regardless of their being subject to physical damage.
Or
Maybe I'm asinine , and anything anywhere exposed outside is subject to physical damage. Taking Marc's arguement one step further, people use ladders and hammers and saws and trees fall and cars crash , just like people use gardening tools , and lawn equipment . Perhaps we need a "physical damage location definition"
 
IN regaqrds to the LFNC-B emerging from the ground is fine, as stated as long as not subjec to physical damage...he determination of this location really falls within 90.4 in most cases.

In some areas the term " severe " physical damage has been added and I would venture to say I agree in that everywhere is potentially subject to physical damage so common sense would rule and hope the AHJ takes everything into consideration.
 
I also agree with Marc and Pierre.

Pierre and I are disagreeing, a little, on another one that's an interpretation issue. I think that anything that's at ground level or run exposed, especially outdoors, is "subject to physial damage". Again just how I call it.

M.D. said trees fall, and cars crash, and yes that's true and my guess would be that the odds of something "not" happening to that pipe is way better than the odds of something happening, but why not air on the side of caution.

I get called "old school" a lot for the way I do things, but the only plastic you will ever see on a job I did, including my own back yard, is the female nipple where I change over to emt or galvinized.
 
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