Listed Equipment Required??

[daddio]

We are wrapping up (2) industrial projects in Upstate NY, and requesting a final inspection from the 3rd party agency. The inspector is requiring a UL lable (or equivalent) on the production machinery we are hooking up. Does he have the authority to do that?? The equipment involved (actually 2 jobs at the same location) is printing and bindery machinery and plastics blow molding and related equipment. Most of this machinery and equipment is manufactured overseas in Italy, Germany and elsewhere.

We, as the electrical contractor, do not feel it is our area of responsibility to deal with this, as we are not providing the equipment. We feel that we are providing code compliant feeders and disconnecting means for the equipment and proper terminations at the control cabinets and that is what our inspector is responsible for inspecting. Who is right here?

 

[petersonra]

Generally, the equipment itself is not required to be listed, only the control panel. This is a common requirement in many, but not all, jurisdictions, and arguably required by OSHA in any case.

I concur that you as the EC are not responsible for what you did not supply.

It is possible to get a label affixed by having the control panels inspected. It is not necessarily all that cheap. It would not surprise me one bit that the third party agency doing the inspection can supply this service, or has an affiliate that does this kind of thing.

You may find some very unpleasant things for the owner, or whoever spec'd the equipment. Often European stuff comes with wire color codes that do not match NFPA79/UL508a requirements, and often the wire is not to US standards. Most of the components may be UL listed already, but there could be some issues there too, as printing equipment often uses a lot of odd ball components. It is possible to use non-UL listed components in specific ways, but not always.

The entity that spec'd the equipment may be getting a very expensive surprise.

 

[infinity]

I agree with the inspector. Unless you're providing a branch circuit and receptacle for someone else to plug in a piece of non-listed equipment. Would it be permitted to hardwire a non-listed lighting fixture?

 

[petersonra]

I agree with the inspector. Unless you're providing a branch circuit and receptacle for someone else to plug in a piece of non-listed equipment. Would it be permitted to hardwire a non-listed lighting fixture?

Is a lighting fixture required to be listed in the first place?

 

[charlie b]

I think the bottom line starts with 110.3(B). That article requires us to follow the instructions that came with any listed or labeled equipment. But what requires anything to have been listed or labeled in the first place? What prohibits me from specifying an item that is not listed, be that item a luminaire, a pump, a fan, a compressor, or any other type of equipment? I don?t know, or more to the point I don?t know what NEC article would stop me from doing so. I think that is the question that needs an answer here. Anyone know the article, or whether there is such an article? :-?

 

[jim dungar]

90.7 talks about examining equipment. It mentions how "listing" can make the inspectors job easier when they try to enforce 110.2. In and of itself "listing" is not a general NEC requirement. 110.3(A) only requires equipment to be examined. 110.3(B) simply requires that equipment and materials be used in the "listed and labeld" manner.

So an inspector can allow any un-listed equipment outdoors, if it is judged as acceptable under 110.3(A). However, the inspector can only allow "listed" equipment outdoors only if it is mentioned in the instructions per 110.3(B).

 

[wanderer20001us]

This installation would be covered under 670 and it does not indicate the requirement of the equipment being listed. Perminant nameplate, yes... but listed, not required that I see.

Jim - If the equipment is not listed in this discussion, 110(B) would not apply as it only referes to listed and labeled equipment.

 

[jim dungar]

This installation would be covered under 670 and it does not indicate the requirement of the equipment being listed. Perminant nameplate, yes... but listed, not required that I see.

670 does not apply to industrial equipment except in regards to a nameplate (670.3). Everything else in 670 has to do with the supply conductors to the equipment.

And yes, I agree, if the equipment is not "listed or labeled" then 110.3(B) does not apply at all.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Article 110.2 states that "The conductors and equipment required or permitted by this code shall be acceptable only if approved". Approved is defined as "Acceptable to the AHJ". Thus, it seems the inspector can turn you down for non listed equipment

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is another interesting point. If what I said in the thread above is true then can an inspector turn down a UL approved piece of equipment if it isn't acceptable to him/her?

Here, in NC the inspectors have always insisted that all equipment has to be UL or some other listing lab. approved. I know I feel safer installing a UL approved device or whatever. I would not install a non listed fixture. Why take the risk. When home owners insist on buying their own lights I remind them if it isn't UL approved I won't install it. Plain and simple.

 

[iwire]

Here is another interesting point. If what I said in the thread above is true then can an inspector turn down a UL approved piece of equipment if it isn't acceptable to him/her?

Yes IMO they can under the NEC.

Here in MA we have a local rule that requires the acceptance of listed equipment when used per it's listing.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Generally, the equipment itself is not required to be listed, only the control panel. This is a common requirement in many, but not all, jurisdictions, and arguably required by OSHA in any case.

I am very curious about this statement that was made quite a few days ago. I thought that all electrical equpment had to be listed.

Article 110.3(B) states Listed and labeled equipment shall be installedand ....

So yes IMO light fixtures and any other wired equipment must be listed either by UL or some other listing labaratory.

 

[petersonra]

Generally, the equipment itself is not required to be listed, only the control panel. This is a common requirement in many, but not all, jurisdictions, and arguably required by OSHA in any case.

I am very curious about this statement that was made quite a few days ago. I thought that all electrical equpment had to be listed.

Article 110.3(B) states Listed and labeled equipment shall be installedand ....

So yes IMO light fixtures and any other wired equipment must be listed either by UL or some other listing labaratory.

No. It says if you use listed or labeled equipment, you have to follow the instructions.

(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

I have often wondered why you only have to follow the instructions on listed or labeled equipment.

Anyway. to answer your main comment, as far as I know, there is no listing program by any NRTL for industrial machinery, only for the control panels thereof.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I read it differently. Perhaps cause my grammer sucks. In this area everything must be laboratory listed-- maybe this is a local thing. I just assumed it was part of the NEC.

So you are telling me light fixtures don't have to be listed--dang-- I have refused to install unlisted lights for years. Probably not a bad idea anyway. I am going to check with our states Dept of Insurance--that may be where it comes from.

 

[iwire]

So yes IMO light fixtures and any other wired equipment must be listed either by UL or some other listing labaratory.

If that was really the case we would have a problem.

As an example NEMA electric motors are not normally listed at all.

The NEC spells out when listed equipment is required in specific code sections.

In the raceway Articles 3XX.6 you will find that raceways are required to be listed.

In 411.3 you see that low volt lighting systems must be listed.

 

[iwire]

I read it differently. Perhaps cause my grammer sucks. In this area everything must be laboratory listed-- maybe this is a local thing.

So a standard 3/4 HP motor would not be allowed in your area?

Or Caddy Clips?

Or Strut support sytems?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I do not have an answer for you Bob but I know that if you install a ight fixture that is not listed you will get turned down. Many years ago I installed an outdoor post light that matched all the others in this condo area (the old one was wasted). It was the exact same light, same company, etc as all the others on this property but it had no UL sticker on it and I got turned down.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

of course, those clamps are not wired either.

 

[iwire]

Bob but I know that if you install a ight fixture that is not listed you will get turned down.

Do they cite a code section?

I don't think they have to accept non listed equipment but the NEC does not always require listed equipment.

 

[davidr43229]

I would submit that the Electrical Inspector is the AHJ (Authority of Having Juristiction) and asking for the UL label based upon article 409 and 670, where on the name plate now states "SCCR" for a properly installing Industrial Control Panels, which also applies to HVAC 60 amps & above (Roof top units).
Equipment that comes in from the EU has to conform to IEC-60204-1 and companies usually self declare in this regard.
If I were you I would bring it up to the owner and let the owner and Electrical Inspector "duke it out". You did your job of installation.