Listed?..Help Needed

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Mvillines

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Western KY on the Ohio River
I need help! Would someone with the NEC on disc do a search and post a list of sections where the word ?listed? (as in Listed and Labeled) appears? An example would be section 250.52 (5)(b) and 250.52(6). Much thanks for your help.
 
There are over 1000 places where the word listed is used. You would have to pay me big bucks-- can you narrow the search criteria.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
There are over 1000 places where the word listed is used. You would have to pay me big bucks-- can you narrow the search criteria.
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Dennis,
Good return question.

I was confronted by a 'master electrician' who stated outright that "listed" (refering to U.L.) had nothing to do with the NEC, and that my views were not correct. I ignored the confront, and did what I was paid to do.
Perhaps the OP is in that position.
If so, I suggest that the OP should not get into a confrontation with an EC.
 
Wow over 1000 places!!!!! This comes from a discussion I had the other day with another inspector. He stated that all equipment associated with an electrical installation must include a listing from a testing agency such as UL. I referred back to section 250.52 (5) which seem to support that all equipment connected to the electrical installation is not required to have a testing label or stamp.

No confrontation, I was just wondering how many times the NEC refer to equipment required to be listed. I don?t have a clue how to refine the search for (listed) as in Listed and labeled vs (listed) as in information listed in table ######.


Thanks for doing your search and if you do find a way to narrow the search criteria?I?d appreciate that too.
 
Mvillines said:
Wow over 1000 places!!!!! This comes from a discussion I had the other day with another inspector. He stated that all equipment associated with an electrical installation must include a listing from a testing agency such as UL. I referred back to section 250.52 (5) which seem to support that all equipment connected to the electrical installation is not required to have a testing label or stamp.

No confrontation, I was just wondering how many times the NEC refer to equipment required to be listed. I don?t have a clue how to refine the search for (listed) as in Listed and labeled vs (listed) as in information listed in table ######.


Thanks for doing your search and if you do find a way to narrow the search criteria?I?d appreciate that too.
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250.52 (5) Hun????????
 
Ref to 250.52 (A)(5)(b) Grounding electrodes of stainless steel and copper or zinc coated steel shall be at least 15.87mm (5/8 in.) in diameter, unless listed and not less than 12.70mm (1/2 in) in diameter.

Sorry I didn't pay close attention to the section I wanted to reference.
 
The question of how many times the word “listed” appears is very, very different from the question of how many times the NEC has a statement to the effect that a component is required to be listed. Trusting that Dennis did his search correctly, there are over 1000 instances of the former. I am not certain that there is a single instance of the later. My guess is that the number of times the NEC explicitly requires something to be listed can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Take a look at 110.2, and the FPN that leads you to 90.7. What these articles tell me is that (1) On some basis or other, the AHJ has to “approve” the equipment being installed, and (2) If an item is listed, it makes the AHJ’s job easier. But neither article, nor any other place in the NEC that I am aware of, tells us that all equipment must be listed.
 
charlie b said:
Take a look at 110.2, and the FPN that leads you to 90.7. What these articles tell me is that (1) On some basis or other, the AHJ has to ?approve? the equipment being installed, and (2) If an item is listed, it makes the AHJ?s job easier. But neither article, nor any other place in the NEC that I am aware of, tells us that all equipment must be listed.
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As usual, very good point. If you search the words listed equipment you get 29 hits- most not in reference to particulars and states "when used with listed equipment".

We do have art. 424.6 & definitions below

424.6 Listed Equipment.
Electric baseboard heaters, heating cables, duct heaters, and radiant heating systems shall be listed and labeled.
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Definition

Listed. Equipment, materials, or services included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with evaluation of products or services, that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services, and whose listing states that either the equipment, material, or service meets appropriate designated standards or has been tested and found suitable for a specified purpose.
FPN: The means for identifying listed equipment may vary for each organization concerned with product evaluation, some of which do not recognize equipment as listed unless it is also labeled. Use of the system employed by the listing organization allows the authority having jurisdiction to identify a listed product.
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Nothing says that equipment must be listed and labeled. Look at 110.3(A)(1) FPN: (and yes I know).......Suitability of equipment may be evidenced by listing or labeling.
 
Well stated Charlie. 424.6

Dennis, it is sections such as 424.6 that you stated that I am look for. Another example is section 410.8 Listing Required. All luminaries and lampholders shall be listed.

It seem that the term Listed is refered to more often than I realized. I have scanned through the NEC and discover several occurrences of the term ?Listed?.
 
As i said before the term itself is there many time. I posted 424.6 because I thought that's what you wanted but I didn't see more than that. I'll look again.
 
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Found One in article 695. I think that's it.

695.10 Listed Equipment.
Diesel engine fire pump controllers, electric fire pump controllers, electric motors, fire pump power transfer switches, foam pump controllers, and limited service controllers shall be listed for fire pump service. [20:9.5.1.1, 10.1.2.1, 12.1.3.1]
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Dennis Alwon said:
As i said before the term itself is there many time.
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Dennis,
Now, you have me looking again.
So many items are 'listed' or 'approved'
but I wonder with whom or by whom.
Are we left with the AHJ being the final authority ?
I understand that if 'I' fabricate a trough,
that the AHJ must 'approve' it,
and to me that implies that there is some other prime approver
such as "U.L." which normally suffices.

Almost all my material has a "U.L." stamp/tag on it.
Is there a citation anywhere in the NEC
that specifically links 'listed' with "U.L." ?

I found at least 24 "Underwriters Laboratories, Inc" experts on the Code Panels.
 
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U.L does not "approve" anything. Approval is within the purview of the AHJ. There are other laboratories; U.L. is not the only one that has the ability to "list" equipment.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Found One in article 695. I think that's it.
Click to expand...

Dennis,

Have YET to find anywhere that Underwriter's Lab (U.L.)
is specifically linked with 'Listed" or "Listing" or "approved".
But, it is obvious that the implied authority is from U.L.
or C.S.A. or ANSI, etc.

***(1) Searched for terms like these:

UL
CSA
ANSI
Listing

***(2) Found these cites for starters:

Intro:
This Code is purely advisory as far as NFPA is concerned

100:
FPN: Some examples of ways to determine suitability of
equipment for a specific purpose, environment, or application
include investigations by a qualified testing laboratory
(listing and labeling), an inspection agency, or other organizations
concerned with product evaluation.

100:
Listed. Equipment, materials, or services included in a list
published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority
having jurisdiction and concerned with evaluation
of products or services, that maintains periodic inspection
of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic
evaluation of services, and whose listing states that either
the equipment, material, or service meets appropriate designated
standards or has been tested and found suitable for
a specified purpose.
FPN: The means for identifying listed equipment may vary
for each organization concerned with product evaluation,
some of which do not recognize equipment as listed unless
it is also labeled. Use of the system employed by the listing
organization allows the authority having jurisdiction to
identify a listed product.


110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation,
and Use of Equipment.
(A) Examination. In judging equipment, considerations
such as the following shall be evaluated:
(1) Suitability for installation and use in conformity with
the provisions of this Code
FPN: Suitability of equipment use may be identified by a
description marked on or provided with a product to identify
the suitability of the product for a specific purpose,
environment, or application. Suitability of equipment may
be evidenced by listing or labeling.

(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

110.10 Circuit Impedance and Other Characteristics.
...
Listed products applied in accordance with their listing
shall be considered to meet the requirements of this section.

***(3) Leads me to believe that the AHJ is literally the AHJ !

:-?
 
NC has a list somewhere of the third party testing companies that they will accept. Ul is just the most common or best known but there are many others.
 
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