Listed versus non-listed residential lighting fixtures

[Jons]

So many custom homes I've seen have "custom" lighting fixtures fabricated by "artists". I asked on of these people if their fixtures had any sort of "listing" and they looked at me all paranoid and replied, "no". BTW, the shop was in Upstate New York. My question: Does the NEC mandate the use of "listed" fixtures by a recognized authority, or can a homeowner specify, have built, and have installed anything they want and duke it out with the insurance company in the event a fire is caused by an unlisted product installed in their house? Also, If not NEC mandated, does the local jurisdiction or state make the call regarding the installation and operation of such a fixture acceptable or not?

 

[Jraef]

If it's plug-in, the NEC has no jurisdiction.

As to "duking it out with the insurance company", it's usually a short fight. Somewhere buried deep in the policy is a statement to the effect of voiding coverage of a fire is determined to be caused by unlisted devices. Whether or not they can prove that is another matter, but insurance investigators will often go above and beyond what a fire dept. investigator will do if the claim is large enough. So ironically when some rich person who can afford artsy-fartsy light fixtures has a fire started by one of them, the size of the loss almost guarantees that the insurance company will do the full Monty investigation.

 

[roger]

The NEC does require luminaires to be listed, see 410.6.

Roger

 

[Jons]

Listed versus non-listed residential lighting fixtures

Sorry..didn't mention....hardwired fixtures, not plug and cord.

 

[Jons]

Listed versus non-listed residential lighting fixtures

So many custom homes I've seen have "custom" lighting fixtures fabricated by "artists". I asked on of these people if their fixtures had any sort of "listing" and they looked at me all paranoid and replied, "no". BTW, the shop was in Upstate New York. My question: Does the NEC mandate the use of "listed" fixtures by a recognized authority, or can a homeowner specify, have built, and have installed anything they want and duke it out with the insurance company in the event a fire is caused by an unlisted product installed in their house? Also, If not NEC mandated, does the local jurisdiction or state make the call regarding the installation and operation of such a fixture acceptable or not?

I can't reveal who the "artsy fartsy" rich person is, but this guy is one of the most successful business folks in the US. In his case he prob wouldn't GAS about not getting a settlement from the insurance company, but there a host of other homes down the road worth a fraction of what this guys is who def would GAS if their house burned and the insurance company refused to pay following their investigation.

 

[roger]

I can't reveal who the "artsy fartsy" rich person is, but this guy is one of the most successful business folks in the US. In his case he prob wouldn't GAS about not getting a settlement from the insurance company, but there a host of other homes down the road worth a fraction of what this guys is who def would GAS if their house burned and the insurance company refused to pay following their investigation.

It doesn't really matter who the customer is, it doesn't change anything as far as the code is concerned however, the NEC only requires fixtures in very few places and residential applications don't fall under these areas. The NEC only requires "Lighting Outlets" be installed, so the customer can install what they want after the CO.

Roger

 

[Jons]

Non-rated lighting fixtures

Non-rated lighting fixtures

It doesn't really matter who the customer is, it doesn't change anything as far as the code is concerned however, the NEC only requires fixtures in very few places and residential applications don't fall under these areas. The NEC only requires "Lighting Outlets" be installed, so the customer can install what they want after the CO.

Roger

True, so it sounds like if one wants to "beat the system", its possible. However, lighting circuits being fed by non-Arc faulted branch circuits are at greater risk of a non-rated fixture fault causing mucho headaches, e.g. passible non-payment of claim from their insurance company.

 

[sameguy]

I hung fixtures that were new no ul and old no ul on them (gas fixtures turned elec.) I just noted it on the bill and cashed the check; I did tell the home owner but they didn't care. I did make sure center was hot and my work as far as could be grounded (the gas fixtures) was done.

 

[roger]

I hung fixtures that were new no ul and old no ul on them (gas fixtures turned elec.) I just noted it on the bill and cashed the check; I did tell the home owner but they didn't care. I did make sure center was hot and my work as far as could be grounded (the gas fixtures) was done.

And how did the inspector handle it?

Roger

 

[sameguy]

And how did the inspector handle it?

Roger

Never looked at a fixture just hit the switches.
I have never seen an inspector check fixtures for ul cert. ever.
In the 1980's we wired Ryan Homes, hundreds of them.

 

[nickelec]

It doesn't really matter who the customer is, it doesn't change anything as far as the code is concerned however, the NEC only requires fixtures in very few places and residential applications don't fall under these areas. The NEC only requires "Lighting Outlets" be installed, so the customer can install what they want after the CO.

Roger

I was going to , so in theroy you can you pass an inspection without fixtures being installed in a home basically just a center point with a blank plate or would some soup of keyless porcelain need to be installed

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[roger]

I was going to , so in theroy you can you pass an inspection without fixtures being installed in a home basically just a center point with a blank plate or would some soup of keyless porcelain need to be installed

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As far as the NEC is concerned, generally speaking you do not need any fixtures, in most situations you can switch a receptacle and be done.

Roger

 

[nickelec]

So something needs to be there it can't be a blank box

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[roger]

So something needs to be there it can't be a blank box

It could be, but you don't really need a ceiling box, the switched receptacle meets code requirement.

Be aware that this catches some inspectors off guard and you may be in for a fight.

There are also local codes that may require more than the NEC.

Roger

 

[kwired]

So something needs to be there it can't be a blank box

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NEC only requires lighting outlets in certain areas - particularly dwellings. The "luminaire" is on the load side of the "outlet". See art 100 definition of "outlet".

If NEC actually requires "illumination" in a particular space then you will need a lighting "outlet" plus a "luminaire".