Hey guys/gals, I'm doing a new livestock shed for a customer. We have 2 outdoor waterer/fountains, the manufacturer recommends, buts doesn't require, a ground rod be driven at the waterer. It's a dirt lot, no concrete, so no real equal potential plane. A talk with my inspector suggests not driving the ground rod at the waterer as it could interfere with the rest of my grounding system. So, I already have 2 rods driven at the shed panel. I've run, in 3/4 pvc, #12 to each waterer, I'm wondering if a good idea would be to pull out the #12 green, and instead replace it with a #8 or #6 thhn, and then crimp that to my grounding electrode conductor. 1, because it would be a better connection in the waterer because they're prone to moisture and corrosion. 2, in case they would concrete the yard and I'd need to connect an EPP. Or would this be just overkill at the moment? I do have them connected to GFCI breakers as well. Just wanted another opinon on the matter, thanks!
Livestock waterer connection
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Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
Metal watering tank or pvc?
Might suggest EP bonding similar to pool even on "earth only" without concrete pad to reduce potential from NEV, either by a water bond or if metal tank to the tank. Would not be tieing to the EGC. NEV is continuously fluctuating, but would know soon enough if you don't provide an EP bond and the livestock beging to refuse to drink.
Might be reason for mfg suggestion is for EP not equipment grounding, a small tank might be adequately served by a strategically placed rod for EP.
Might suggest EP bonding similar to pool even on "earth only" without concrete pad to reduce potential from NEV, either by a water bond or if metal tank to the tank. Would not be tieing to the EGC. NEV is continuously fluctuating, but would know soon enough if you don't provide an EP bond and the livestock beging to refuse to drink.
Might be reason for mfg suggestion is for EP not equipment grounding, a small tank might be adequately served by a strategically placed rod for EP.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
You need the EG more than the rod, but the rod won't hurt anything and it's an extra $50. Generally we didn't use them.
Use the gel filled wire connectors listed for direct burial.
Use the gel filled wire connectors listed for direct burial.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
We had a customer with horses. She did not like them getting shocked. It was a PIA at times but we GFCId them. Each time they tripped there was an issue at the waterers. Elements or thermostats. The GFCI devices were mounted on a pole as close to the waters as we could get them.
Thanks for the help guys, I think as long as I've got my EG and GFCI I'm covered, and if I have a rod already there, I'll use it, if not it's not a big deal. I know a tripping GFI could be a pita, but I'd so much rather fix that or thermostats and heaters, then pick up dead cows.
They’ll stop drinking before they get electrocuted. They could die of dehydration, though.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
They don't sense it other than that they can feel it at levels we don't, that and more/better points of contact to earth.
NEV and shocking livestock at waterers is something that has interested me. From what I've studied, this is one of the downsides of using a grounded system.
I was wondering if you could eliminate the problem by changing the power to an ungrounded system on-site with a 1:1 transformer then power all of the warmers with the ungrounded system.
Of course, everything else on the farm could stay on the grounded system, only use the ungrounded system for things that could shock cattle.
Would this work? Also, I'm just speculating and brain storming so don't bite my head off.
I was wondering if you could eliminate the problem by changing the power to an ungrounded system on-site with a 1:1 transformer then power all of the warmers with the ungrounded system.
Of course, everything else on the farm could stay on the grounded system, only use the ungrounded system for things that could shock cattle.
Would this work? Also, I'm just speculating and brain storming so don't bite my head off.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Over the 40 years I worked with waterers, it was on farm issues. Only one had a Ronk Blocker installed but most of the problem was still due to miss wiring or ground faults. Equipment or wiring.
You have a lot of experience, and I respect the hell out of that, so my question is this:. If the waterers were on an ungrounded system and cattle or people could touch a conductor and not get shocked, would you still have the same issues you get from miss wiring or ground faults. Equipment or wiring?
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
It would be no different than any ungrounded system. The first fault would cause no problems other than it now becomes grounded.
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