load centers in damp locations

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CraigE

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I need to replace a panel that is obstructed from clear working space by a washer in a laundry room by installing a replacement back to back through a block wall out in a covered carport, a damp location. I believe I can use an indoor type load center since it is damp but not wet location if I mount the panel 1/4 inch off the block wall. the panel location is about 8 feet inside the carport . am i right?
 
That's correct, 408.37 directs you to 312.2 which tells you that you need to 1/4" of air gap between the panel and the mounting surface.

Welcome to the Forum. :)
 
I'd say it is mostly inspector's discretion, but if what you have is basically a garage with no door most will probably allow it.
 
infinity said:
That's correct, 408.37 directs you to 312.2 which tells you that you need to 1/4" of air gap between the panel and the mounting surface.

Welcome to the Forum. :)
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And included mounting provisions on the cabinet normally provide that. Can be issues with irregular surfaces though like many siding types won't easily allow that air gap. I see little to no attention being observed to this rule though. Is usually only a problem in areas that are wet a majority of the time or have other higher corrosion conditions that may apply.
 
You are taking a big risk. The inspector might reject the job because s/he wants an outdoor panel there. I would call the inspector and get prior approval of an indoor panel, or just use an outdoor panel.
 
Coppersmith said:
You are taking a big risk. The inspector might reject the job because s/he wants an outdoor panel there. I would call the inspector and get prior approval of an indoor panel, or just use an outdoor panel.
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I agree you might at least want to call and ask. At same time I have installed many indoor panels, non WP switches, receptacles or other equipment just inside an overhead door. Not really much different than a carport when it is raining horizontally and the door got left open.
 
Are standard panels only listed for dry locations? If not there is no code reason why it cannot be installed in a damp location.
 
I haven't read the listing of any indoor panels, but my gut tells me they are dry location only. The inspector might feel the same way. It's a lot cheaper to check with the inspector first, than to battle it out after the panel has been installed and rejected.
 
electrofelon said:
But do they use the words "damp" or "wet" in the NEMA enclosure descriptions? I did a quick Google and it doesn't appear so. It does say "indoors" for NEMA 1
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Yeah that's what I was basing my post on the word indoors, nothing that says outdoors that I have seen.
 
But the questions here is

Is this indoors, outdoors, something else?

Is this wet, dry, damp, something else?

Indoors doesn't necessarily mean dry. There are wet and damp locations that are otherwise indoors at times.

Outdoors usually means not dry but still can be damp but not wet sometimes.
 
kwired said:
But the questions here is

Is this indoors, outdoors, something else?

Is this wet, dry, damp, something else?

Indoors doesn't necessarily mean dry. There are wet and damp locations that are otherwise indoors at times.

Outdoors usually means not dry but still can be damp but not wet sometimes.
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What we know from the OP, outdoors under a carport, damp location. That's it. IMO no more information is needed to answer the question.
 
For what it's worth alot of panels are installed in basements that are pretty damp, and it shows on the effects of it on the panel.
Inspectors still allow it though.
For the most part the outdoor rating has to do with the enclosure, some has copper busses that make them more durable in my opinion.
If the carport only has one wall and there open walls, I would define it as outdoors.
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
For what it's worth alot of panels are installed in basements that are pretty damp, and it shows on the effects of it on the panel.
Inspectors still allow it though.
For the most part the outdoor rating has to do with the enclosure, some has copper busses that make them more durable in my opinion.
If the carport only has one wall and there open walls, I would define it as outdoors.
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And as I mentioned earlier I have placed many "indoor" items whether it be panelboards, switches, receptacles, etc. just inside an overhead door and they can possibly be subject to much more moisture if the door is open at the wrong time than same equipment located at the rear wall of some open fronted structure.

And I think the rating is pretty much entirely about the enclosure. Most the time you can get the exact same panelboard in either an indoor or outdoor rated enclosure. Especially those that are not marketed as "loadcenters".
 
kwired said:
And I think the rating is pretty much entirely about the enclosure. Most the time you can get the exact same panelboard in either an indoor or outdoor rated enclosure. Especially those that are not marketed as "loadcenters".
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I agree, when I look at Square D panels the interior of a 3R panel seems to be identical to a Type 1, indoor panel.
 
infinity said:
I agree, when I look at Square D panels the interior of a 3R panel seems to be identical to a Type 1, indoor panel.
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The "loadcenters" is where they possibly could use something different for each.

The real "panelboards" you order your panelboard and any accessory items, which includes main breaker adapters and the main breaker itself when needed, feed through lug kits if needed, and then you order the cabinet to put it in. You might need different size cabinet depending on accessories. You might get option of copper or aluminum bus (both tin plated), but either works in N1 or N3, 4, 12 or whatever.
 
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